• We are having a problem with new Hotmail members being unable to receive activation emails. Please avoid using a Hotmail email address. Thanks.

Things are not always what they seem! (EV etiquette)

In retrospect - yes, most likely.

I just thought that with 100% I’d make it home in one stint and not have to worry about range anxiety and finding chargers etc.

As it happens, we left the hotel with 96% (charger stopped before full charge) and after a few detours we had to put another 40% fast charge mid-journey to arrive home with 20%. So the 250 mile trip used 114% and charging was inevitable. For some reason I had planned for 210 miles and thought a full battery would get me there (but forgot about the 20% to keep in the “tank” for contingency and battery health reasons.

I need to get used to plan long journeys better. Never had this issue with the leaf before as with such a short range we tended not to go very far :)
 
In retrospect - yes, most likely.

I just thought that with 100% I’d make it home in one stint and not have to worry about range anxiety and finding chargers etc.

As it happens, we left the hotel with 96% (charger stopped before full charge) and after a few detours we had to put another 40% fast charge mid-journey to arrive home with 20%. So the 250 mile trip used 114% and charging was inevitable. For some reason I had planned for 210 miles and thought a full battery would get me there (but forgot about the 20% to keep in the “tank” for contingency and battery health reasons.

I need to get used to plan long journeys better. Never had this issue with the leaf before as with such a short range we tended not to go very far :)

ABRP is great for planning long trips.

I have the OBD2 dongle and it learns your driving range from that. Mine is currently using 263W/m at 65mph for its range calculations. I set it to a minimum of 4 chargers at a location, all 50kW or above. It then works out the required stops and charging times.
 
In retrospect - yes, most likely.

I just thought that with 100% I’d make it home in one stint and not have to worry about range anxiety and finding chargers etc.

As it happens, we left the hotel with 96% (charger stopped before full charge) and after a few detours we had to put another 40% fast charge mid-journey to arrive home with 20%. So the 250 mile trip used 114% and charging was inevitable. For some reason I had planned for 210 miles and thought a full battery would get me there (but forgot about the 20% to keep in the “tank” for contingency and battery health reasons.

I need to get used to plan long journeys better. Never had this issue with the leaf before as with such a short range we tended not to go very far :)
Did you limit your life because of the Leaf's range although people still go on long trips with small batteries? Was it inconvenience of charging, fear of range, or had the need to venture further never arisen? Just interested to hear about your experience overall, and whether you feel the new car fixes past issues.

Also in my planning ahead, I've found some threads on long journeys which contain good tips from other users. A couple of the ones I've bookmarked, which might be handy to you also:
If it’s a planned long trip then ABRP is excellent.

If you are low and just need to find a charger then WattsUp is really good. WattsUp now shows the public Tesla Chargers as well :)

View attachment 9217

Notice the new 350kW GridServe Chargers at the Severn View Services :)


Have you tried ABRP as it sets out your stops based on you requirements.
I would go down to 20-30% for plan A so it leaves you wiggle room for plan B.
Charge it up to 80-90% or when the charge rate drops off then head off to your next stop or destination. You will end up with a few apps but you may only use a few favourites.
 
1. Enjoy your new car.
2. Don't think you need to worry about a fine this time.
3. As an EV driver I would probably have been 'annoyed' that you were effectively 'slow' charging and blocking the rapid charger for hours. However, sounds like you now know to avoid doing that again....we are all on a learning curve.
4. You could have rapid charged to approx 95% without doing any damage to your battery.... The car/charger for down the charging rate the closer it gets to bring full.
5. Well done for managing to be inventive and sourcing a new ZS.
6. And finally, as per point 1, enjoy your new car.
 
EV Etiquette? Here is what every EV prospect should know and do
  1. Know why you want an EV and how you intend to use it. Understand the difference to a phev before you buy one.
  2. Do extended test drives before you commit
  3. Download and read the cars manual from cover to cover before you buy the car.
  4. Car dealers should always offer to train new owners before giving them the car that is basically beta technology, temperamental and a political /eco trade off waiting for a real stable longer term ICE replacement solution.
  5. Batteries never last as long as the manufactures tell you and worse in winter. It’s basic science
  6. There are far too many amateur theories on charging techniques, ignore them all and just accept that the manufacture has built in enough tolerances to just let get on and charge up whenever you can for as much as you need for your journey
  7. Yes battery balancing is a thing but not needed mid journey. Your car tells you when you have left it too long
  8. EVs won’t save the planet so buy it after you have worked out your total cost of ownership compared to an ice car, unless you are actually affluent enough not to have to budget
  9. It’s not your fault there are not enough charging stations. It’s a man eats dog world. However an app like this one helps you retain your civilised persona NeedToCharge | The friendly way to share an EV charger
 
Whether it was worrying about battery health or trying to balance the battery the EV etiquette that was broken was leaving the car unattended on a rapid for over 6 hours. I think most drivers would expect an hour unattended and so could decide whether to wait for the owner to return but you wouldn't turn up at a rapid and be expected to wait over 6 hours for one car.
 
Last edited:
Although I would have used the CCS and waited the half hour or so to get to 80%, I would also have assumed that the CCS would not be affected by someone connected to the Type 2.
CCS is DC and type 2 is AC. :unsure:
 
I hear you all - ironically, things were not as they seemed to me! And I've learned to "be better" as the note suggested - so it's all good.
re: not doing long journeys on the Leaf: We had done less long trips as with a 5 year old 30kWh leaf the range isn't particularly great. Chademo charging is not as abundant as CCS, so it all came down to time. Driving slower to preserve the battery - wasting time looking for a working/available charger (yes, I see the irony here), and then the slow charging of the battery - this didn't make it a nice "day out" experience with the family. So to avoid the charging issues, we would try to limit trips to places we could reach and get back home to without charging. We did 2 or three long-ish journeys (2 charges) and they were OK - but sometimes doing an 40 mile trip (+40 mile back) could be an issue as we needed a small topup to make it home, and one time only the 4th location had a working Chademo charger - and I had to wait 40 minutes for a Tesla to finish charing to get my 15 minute topup!

The ZS EV LR changes all that in a number of ways - bigger battery & the more common CCS. This makes charging on the go less essential and less stressful.

Here's some very rough maths:
Although the ZS EV LR has an WLTP of 273 miles - I gather it should do around 200 miles at 70mph (motorway speeds).
But if you start your long journey with 80%, and aim to arrive to any destination/stop with 20% for headroom/finding a charger/battery health reasons - then you only have 60% to play with - around 120 motorway miles before you need to top up the charge.

So on a really long trip, that's a 60% charge (from 20% to 80%) every 1h45mins of driving (120 miles @ 70mph) waiting time of 42mins @ 100kW or 1h @ 50kW

Ignoring all other factors (traffic, temperature, wind, rough maths, entering exiting motorway) - in ideal conditions, doing an endless journey from 80% charge would therefore be something like:

e.g. 360 mile journey starting @ 80% and ending with 20%:
80% > 120 miles @ 70mph > 20% = 1h45
20% > charging @ 100 kW > 80% = 42mins
80% > 120 miles @ 70mph > 20% = 1h45
20% > charging @ 100 kW > 80% = 42mins
80% > 120 miles @ 70mph > 20% = 1h45

approx 1.5h charging time.
It would be interesting to properly calculate this and to compare it with the effect of travelling slower e.g. 65mph, 60mph, 55mph to see if the overall time is shortened (i.e. slower drive but less time charging could be faster overall)

Naturally, if your journey is 200miles long, you could start with 100% and drive it to 1% you'll get 200 miles in one go.

This has certainly been my approach in my occasional 40 mile journey.
It's 40 miles B roads or 65 miles A/M roads. For this journey, on the leaf, I always opted for the shorter journey at slower speeds to get most range with just a short charge on the way home. Now with the ZS EV LR I could go on the faster roads and get back without charging once.
Anyway, I better get back to work so I can pay off the car. I'm doing a 300 mile round trip tomorrow, then I'll report on my experience/impressions of the car in a new thread.
 
Although I would have used the CCS and waited the half hour or so to get to 80%, I would also have assumed that the CCS would not be affected by someone connected to the Type 2.
CCS is DC and type 2 is AC. :unsure:

Maybe it's because it was an older charger (Polar), or perhaps it's because I paid for the charge as a guest - but at 6:30 am the charge screen was exactly how I'd left it at midnight - and I couldn't see any way for someone to start a charge.
 
I hear you all - ironically, things were not as they seemed to me! And I've learned to "be better" as the note suggested - so it's all good.
re: not doing long journeys on the Leaf: We had done less long trips as with a 5 year old 30kWh leaf the range isn't particularly great. Chademo charging is not as abundant as CCS, so it all came down to time. Driving slower to preserve the battery - wasting time looking for a working/available charger (yes, I see the irony here), and then the slow charging of the battery - this didn't make it a nice "day out" experience with the family. So to avoid the charging issues, we would try to limit trips to places we could reach and get back home to without charging. We did 2 or three long-ish journeys (2 charges) and they were OK - but sometimes doing an 40 mile trip (+40 mile back) could be an issue as we needed a small topup to make it home, and one time only the 4th location had a working Chademo charger - and I had to wait 40 minutes for a Tesla to finish charing to get my 15 minute topup!

The ZS EV LR changes all that in a number of ways - bigger battery & the more common CCS. This makes charging on the go less essential and less stressful.

Here's some very rough maths:
Although the ZS EV LR has an WLTP of 273 miles - I gather it should do around 200 miles at 70mph (motorway speeds).
But if you start your long journey with 80%, and aim to arrive to any destination/stop with 20% for headroom/finding a charger/battery health reasons - then you only have 60% to play with - around 120 motorway miles before you need to top up the charge.

So on a really long trip, that's a 60% charge (from 20% to 80%) every 1h45mins of driving (120 miles @ 70mph) waiting time of 42mins @ 100kW or 1h @ 50kW

Ignoring all other factors (traffic, temperature, wind, rough maths, entering exiting motorway) - in ideal conditions, doing an endless journey from 80% charge would therefore be something like:

e.g. 360 mile journey starting @ 80% and ending with 20%:
80% > 120 miles @ 70mph > 20% = 1h45
20% > charging @ 100 kW > 80% = 42mins
80% > 120 miles @ 70mph > 20% = 1h45
20% > charging @ 100 kW > 80% = 42mins
80% > 120 miles @ 70mph > 20% = 1h45

approx 1.5h charging time.
It would be interesting to properly calculate this and to compare it with the effect of travelling slower e.g. 65mph, 60mph, 55mph to see if the overall time is shortened (i.e. slower drive but less time charging could be faster overall)

Naturally, if your journey is 200miles long, you could start with 100% and drive it to 1% you'll get 200 miles in one go.

This has certainly been my approach in my occasional 40 mile journey.
It's 40 miles B roads or 65 miles A/M roads. For this journey, on the leaf, I always opted for the shorter journey at slower speeds to get most range with just a short charge on the way home. Now with the ZS EV LR I could go on the faster roads and get back without charging once.
Anyway, I better get back to work so I can pay off the car. I'm doing a 300 mile round trip tomorrow, then I'll report on my experience/impressions of the car in a new thread.
If planning a long journey why would you want to start with an 80% battery?

It will not harm your battery to charge to 100%. In fact, you need to charge it to 100% before it will start to balance the battery.
 
Lol - we're going round in circles. I wanted to start my journey with a balanced 100% which is why I hogged the Type2 connector for so long.

Knowing what I know now, I would have only fast charged to 80% and thus started the 250 mile journey @ 80%.
So I was replaying a similar scenario where you're at a hotel overnight and have a long journey ahead and cannot slow charge to 100% (also made the maths a easier. :)
 
OK - reading your replies, I can also see your perspectives.

Let me try to explain myself better:

The car was given to me with 100% charge.
I was down to 55% charge and wanted to bring the car back to 100% for my 200 mile journey home, and wanted the battery to balance - which as far as I know should be done no faster than 7kW. If I had fast charged, I’d have to hang around into the early hours of the morning to unplug the car and still be stuck at 80%…

It was midnight and I really thought it wouldn’t inconvenience anyone overnight as I’d never seen anyone use the paid Polar charger during the weekend and I’d picked the “slow” cable letting others use the fast connectors - or so I thought.

Admittedly, I’d forgotten that the type 2 can deliver 22kW for certain cars - having lived with a leaf my mind set equated 7kW with type 2.

I also hadn’t realised that the charger with 2 parking spots and 3 tethered connectors (ccs, chademo + type 2) would not allow anyone else to use it - seems odd to me. I’m sure I’ve been on chademo on my leaf whilst someone else used a type 2 on a single charger ¯\(ツ)

There’s been no payment taken above £15.

It’s all a learning curve which is why I’m sharing my experience.

Oh, and it was the “only other charger” in the hotel car park - there were other chargers not too far away.

Anyway - I just thought it was nice for someone to write me a note instead of damaging my car, but I couldn’t get the free BP pulse 2x 7kWh to work with the MG despite trying very hard, so I resorted to paying for the electricity; annoyed some fellow EV driver; and learned a thing or two.
Sorry but why the bleep did you think it was a good idea to battery balance the car using a public CCS charger, that also had a Type-2 charging port for hours on end on your first drive.

To be honest i think the person who wrote the note is completely right, what you did, is very selfish, and i would be equally as furious as they clearly were.

Put it down to being a new EV owner, and aspire to be better in the future, battery balancing is something you do at home in the driveway, and your inability to get the charger working, is not an excuse for doing what you did.
 
Of course, you will still get ICE drivers blocking the charger. Found this one today :-(

View attachment 9596
Recently i wanted to charge at a motorway charger that has been put in a "corner" of a parking lot.

Says "Only for charging EV's but the lot being a gravel one, it has not clear markings.

Some idiot in a Peugeot 207 had parked so close that it was impossible to get in to the one free spot of the 2.

Had no pen and paper so instead to show my displeasement i flipped their side mirror completely in. This does not harm the car, the driver can just flip it back, but i hope the person driving the car will think about why someone flipped the mirror.

After 5 minutes the car charging left, and i parked with half of my car up a kerb onto some grass, so that it was possible for someone in an ID.4 to squeeze in to the other spot next to the Peugeot, but he still had trouble getting out of the car.

I charged for 25 minutes, and when i drove off, the Peugeot owner had still not returned.
 
Sorry but why the bleep did you think it was a good idea to battery balance the car using a public CCS charger, that also had a Type-2 charging port for hours on end on your first drive.

To be honest i think the person who wrote the note is completely right, what you did, is very selfish, and i would be equally as furious as they clearly were.

Put it down to being a new EV owner, and aspire to be better in the future, battery balancing is something you do at home in the driveway, and your inability to get the charger working, is not an excuse for doing what you did.

As mentioned before, I thought the type 2 cable was only for slow charging & thought the fast chargers would still be usable by others. The 2 slow chargers by the hotel certainly would work for others too - just not for me despite trying everything.

My intentions were definitely not selfish - far from it - I had thought: I’ve got time to spare so I’ll use the “slow”charger to let others fast charge and thus also need less public charging the next day.

I’ve already been through my thought process and admitted my misunderstandings so I don’t think there’s any further need to discuss this further.
 
OK - reading your replies, I can also see your perspectives.

Let me try to explain myself better:

The car was given to me with 100% charge.
I was down to 55% charge and wanted to bring the car back to 100% for my 200 mile journey home, and wanted the battery to balance - which as far as I know should be done no faster than 7kW. If I had fast charged, I’d have to hang around into the early hours of the morning to unplug the car and still be stuck at 80%…

It was midnight and I really thought it wouldn’t inconvenience anyone overnight as I’d never seen anyone use the paid Polar charger during the weekend and I’d picked the “slow” cable letting others use the fast connectors - or so I thought.

Admittedly, I’d forgotten that the type 2 can deliver 22kW for certain cars - having lived with a leaf my mind set equated 7kW with type 2.

I also hadn’t realised that the charger with 2 parking spots and 3 tethered connectors (ccs, chademo + type 2) would not allow anyone else to use it - seems odd to me. I’m sure I’ve been on chademo on my leaf whilst someone else used a type 2 on a single charger ¯\(ツ)

There’s been no payment taken above £15.

It’s all a learning curve which is why I’m sharing my experience.

Oh, and it was the “only other charger” in the hotel car park - there were other chargers not too far away.

Anyway - I just thought it was nice for someone to write me a note instead of damaging my car, but I couldn’t get the free BP pulse 2x 7kWh to work with the MG despite trying very hard, so I resorted to paying for the electricity; annoyed some fellow EV driver; and learned a thing or two.
I appreciate your problem and explanation. I'd be nervous on my first few charges, that's for sure. Thank you.
 
Although I would have used the CCS and waited the half hour or so to get to 80%, I would also have assumed that the CCS would not be affected by someone connected to the Type 2.
CCS is DC and type 2 is AC. :unsure:
I think the issue here is that the CCS is no good if you can't physically get close enough to plug in because someone is parked using type 2 for 6.5 hours 😉

OP has learnt his lesson. Hopefully the apocryphal story helps others avoid the same mistake.
 
I did park properly in one of the two spots, on the type 2 cable side. Just didn’t realise what I was doing would stop others from using the charger, and forgot that type 2 can be used for faster charging too.
 
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

New EVs from MG: MG S9 & MG9 plus hot topics from the forums
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom