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Which is Greener - Electric or ICE?

May be of interest;

There is also the repurposing of the batteries after the lifetime of the EV - these can be used for home electricity storage, etc rather than scrapped. Since these are the biggest upfront source of CO2, it’s not fair to discount the continued use.
 
Heard all the arguments under the sun. In regards to the article, I don't know many cars scrapped before 68300 miles. Here are some other common arguments.

EVs are still fuelled by coal-generated electricity.

An EV is still 'greener' even if powered indirectly by coal. In reality the grid becomes greener every year. Live generation stats may be found here: National Grid: Live Status

But EVs use harmful chemicals to build the batteries.

Maybe, but they are getting better. Newer generations of batteries use less cobalt with some being cobalt free. Cobalt is still used in petrol refining litre after litre. for an EV its used once and can last hundreds of thousands of miles. When the vehicle is scrapped the batteries can be repurposed for energy storage. There are already commercially available home storage solutions derived from old leaf batteries. What happens to old electric car batteries? | National Grid Group

When these are eventually scrapped, potentially a couple of decades after their creation they can be recycled. I don't see petrol being recycled anytime soon. Redwood Materials

In short EV's are only going to get greener whereas oil exploration is becoming more and more costly and environmentally dangerous.
 
Heard all the arguments under the sun. In regards to the article, I don't know many cars scrapped before 68300 miles. Here are some other common arguments.

EVs are still fuelled by coal-generated electricity.

An EV is still 'greener' even if powered indirectly by coal. In reality the grid becomes greener every year. Live generation stats may be found here: National Grid: Live Status

But EVs use harmful chemicals to build the batteries.

Maybe, but they are getting better. Newer generations of batteries use less cobalt with some being cobalt free. Cobalt is still used in petrol refining litre after litre. for an EV its used once and can last hundreds of thousands of miles. When the vehicle is scrapped the batteries can be repurposed for energy storage. There are already commercially available home storage solutions derived from old leaf batteries. What happens to old electric car batteries? | National Grid Group

When these are eventually scrapped, potentially a couple of decades after their creation they can be recycled. I don't see petrol being recycled anytime soon. Redwood Materials

In short EV's are only going to get greener whereas oil exploration is becoming more and more costly and environmentally dangerous.
Hi I agree with all you have said except your first point I and many others use far less electricity by using as much as possible from our PV systems which over the year can be quite a lot of what I use
Les
 
Hi I agree with all you have said except your first point I and many others use far less electricity by using as much as possible from our PV systems which over the year can be quite a lot of what I use
Les
indeed. I don't have solar pv (yet) but many of us are on octopus or other 'green' tariffs so every kw we use creates more demand for green energy and less for fossil fuels. one of the biggest issues we have in the UK is the lack of storage though. over time things will get better, more pumped storage is being developed, hopefully, more battery storage too (including home storage). I already noticed a big difference since I bought my leaf.

the grid also fluctuates a lot according to the time of day and seasons of course. when i posted earlier 40% of the grid was fossil-fueled and only 15% was renewable (can be much worse at dinner time). now its almost midnight and only 31% is fossil fuel. The grid is a lot greener than we may think.
 
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There is also the repurposing of the batteries after the lifetime of the EV - these can be used for home electricity storage, etc rather than scrapped. Since these are the biggest upfront source of CO2, it’s not fair to discount the continued use.
An article by University of Coventry a few months back said they had devised a way to recycle the batteries using bacteria (yes I was surprised) but this is how they recycle the phone batteries.

That being the case one of the big negatives have been overcome
 
May be of interest;

I would have thought the answer is clear. Asking the question regardless can only be fishy. These sort of stats unually assume that the energy to produce the car and the electricity for driving comes from fossile fuel, because if it doesn't the electric car has no emmission at all.
 
I would have thought the answer is clear. Asking the question regardless can only be fishy. These sort of stats unually assume that the energy to produce the car and the electricity for driving comes from fossile fuel, because if it doesn't the electric car has no emmission at all.
It turned out that Volvo were not exactly honest with their CO2 assessments sadly. Whilst factually correct in detail, it's presentation is rather biased!

Can't remember the exact facts, but the 100% renewable energy powered factory in Sweden had 8t of CO2 for the bodyshell in the ICE whereas the identical bodyshell for the EV was somehow 24t being manufactured with coal powered electric in China plus transport costs of CO2.

So whilst technical correct, it is presented in a way that shows EVs to be much worse than they actually are as in not like for like measurement!
 
I would have thought the answer is clear. Asking the question regardless can only be fishy. These sort of stats unually assume that the energy to produce the car and the electricity for driving comes from fossile fuel, because if it doesn't the electric car has no emmission at all.
Really? No emissions from material sourcing, manufacture, transport, assembly and maintenance of solar, wind or wave energy installations.

It is probably less, but if it's nought I might start going to church on Sundays, on foot.

On second thoughts, no, even more evangelists lurking around there 😂

I love electric, but BEHAVE! 🤔
 
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It is reckoned that an identical ICE car that comes in EV form uses 10-20% more CO2 to manufacture in EV all being equal but if you take a dedicated EV platform versus an ICE the gap is tiny.
 
Really? No emissions from material sourcing, manufacture, transport, assembly and maintenance of solar, wind or wave energy installations.

It is probably less, but if it's nought I might start going to church on Sundays, on foot.

On second thoughts, no, even more evangelists lurking around there 😂

I love electric, but BEHAVE! 🤔
once installed though wind, solar, wave don't continue to consume resources at the rate of fossil fuel generation though do they? one would assume a coal or gas powered plant needs a continuous, large supply of resources. They don't run on sunshine!
 
once installed though wind, solar, wave don't continue to consume resources at the rate of fossil fuel generation though do they? one would assume a coal or gas powered plant needs a continuous, large supply of resources. They don't run on sunshine!
So that's a bit like, in shipping loss statistics, drawing a line above the Titanic. 🤔
 
A litre of petrol is equal to 12 Kw of electricity. My MG does 4miles per Kw so a petrol car needs to do 48 miles per litre or 220 miles per gallon to match my MG
 
So that's a bit like, in shipping loss statistics, drawing a line above the Titanic. 🤔
Don't forget the factory workers assembling the car, did they drive to work in an ICE and do they eat beef everyday?
Surely that'll add up the carbon footprint.
:unsure:🤪
 
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