Granny Charging

I feel for you in that circumstance!

I've seen videos of one city where, for a fee, they install a channel in the pavement with a lid so you can lay your cable in it and it's flush. Can't remember where but seems like an obvious long term solution and quite easy to do in reality.
 
Just in case it helps, this is money article claims it's not illegal...

Also interesting that insurers are aware:

"Recently the law has changed as the result of a court ruling where 'use' of a vehicle has been defined.

Charging an EV is deemed as 'use' or using the vehicle, much like you are using a car if you are refuelling it with petrol, even if you aren't physically driving it.

But what if someone else trips over the charging lead?

A spokesman for LV told us: 'If someone was to trip or fall over a charging cable and our customer was found legally responsible or negligent our policy would cover it under "liability to other people".

'With these type of claims, our customer would have to be found negligent in a court of law and there would be other things to consider too, such as the pedestrian perhaps not paying attention to where they were walking because, for example, they were looking at their phone - there could likely be an element of contributory negligence on their part.'

While this might be the case, LV says it hasn't had any cases of this type... yet.

It also added that the injury would need to be 'pretty severe to initiate a claim', and tripping over on a pavement may not necessarily result in a life threatening or altering injury in most cases. "
 
Seaniepie said:
As an electrician, I agree with Ozzie to a certain extent. Granny chargers are used on a ‘at your own risk’ basis. It doesn’t have earth protection because, basically, it doesn’t really help to have one. The reason being that it would be connecting to your house earth and your car is probably not in your house. The time it would take for the earth current to go through the cable, around your ring circuits and to your distribution unit would be an age compared to through you and ground.
Plus you have to remember what would be needed to cause a fault enough that the body of the car would become live. It would take a catastrophic failure of the charging unit inside the car and it’s protective circuits AND the granny charger at the same time. Whilst you are touching it. For the split millisecond before your RCD detects it. The PEN or PME only add another level of protection. This extra level would be a lot more recommended for 3phase chargers, the sort required for 7kW chargers. Up to 3kW on single phase 240v, it shouldn’t be as big a risk.

The main reason they would say it is for emergency only is because the circuits used in the MG supplied unit are not up to the same standard as a mounted one and is subjected to all sorts of potential mistreatment. Cables getting bent, stressed, cut or otherwise damaged. Like a laptop power supply, if it’s well looked after it will serve you fine for many years, day in, day out. However, if you are constantly getting it in and out of its bag, folding and straightening it, you are doing ‘untold’ damage to it and risk causing a failure. But, fortunately, the device or the car will pick up on it and prevent it from working before it causes you or anyone else any harm.

If you are running a line outside and not just to a garage, I would recommend using 6mm² steel wire armoured rather than standard 6mm twin and earth. It will serve you better in the long run even though a little harder to work with.
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Thanks Sean at last a balanced answer rather then biting my head off, as a Gas Engineer for 30 years i am use to working within regs also would not install anything that was unsafe reason i said twin & earth was easy inside plus my front drive is secure and i would be running in plastic conduit i know that's even more work but i think it would look better what rcd protection would you suggest if i may ask, as i have read about a possible DC fault could happen and the rcd would not detect and any other thoughts please regards
 
thanks Ozzie. The rules are different county to county. Ours says you cannot have a channel dug by them or anyone for cables except permanent installations (like cable tv, phone, etc). For my situation it’s a bit grey which is why I’m asking them for clarification. I want something official to say I can or can’t so I can show it to neighbours. We’ll all be in the same situation one day. I’m the first on our street.
 
Depending if you are a high or low usage case, will have some influence on the decision to go for a wall box, over the much slower charge rate of the "Granny" unit.
Another considerations, is IF you are on a cheaper "Off Peak" energy tariff or not.
With the huge increase in electricity prices on the way, then taking advantage of cheaper night time rates can be very important.
Some providers only offer a short 4 - 5 hour window of cheaper rates.
As EV packs are increasing in size, then grabbing the most amount of charge in them "Off Peak" hours is vital.
Using a slower "Granny" is really going to limit how much juice you can pull in that small time scale.
Then a wall box then starts to make sense somehow.
 
ODONO said:
i would be running in plastic conduit i know that's even more work but i think it would look better what rcd protection would you suggest if i may ask, as i have read about a possible DC fault could happen and the rcd would not detect and any other thoughts please regards
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First, if you do run it in plastic conduit, be sure to use some kind of metal tie or support and not just plastic. The 18th edition regs now require that metal fixings are used in case of fire so that cables are well supported and not strangle any firemen on the scene. My friend is a London fireman and knows it happened at least twice. They need to be 30cm apart for horizontal runs and 50cm for vertical.
Regarding RCD, if you already have one on your distribution unit, you’ll need to run a parallel circuit instead of attaching another in the same circuit in series. Otherwise you will get a sort of cross talk between them that will cause one of them to trip the other randomly.
DC is better detected in a Type B RCD. A max of 30mA and NOT a single pole RCBO. Some charger manufacturers quote the need for an RDC-DD (Residual Direct Current Disconnecting Device). But granny chargers are AC only. Most home chargers are. They might only be saying that in case some of the other components go pop. The car itself will likely already have an RDCdd installed so, adding both is just redundancy.
In my install for the granny is a separate Garage type distribution (consumer) unit (from screwfix or B&Q) that runs parallel to the main distro. It has a 40A 30mA Type AC RCD with a 32A MCB and a disabled 6A MCB. A single timed spur socket from the 32A to ONLY run the charger is fine.
 
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Seaniepie said:
First, if you do run it in plastic conduit, be sure to use some kind of metal tie or support and not just plastic. The 18th edition regs now require that metal fixings are used in case of fire so that cables are well supported and not strangle any firemen on the scene. My friend is a London fireman and knows it happened at least twice. They need to be 30cm apart for horizontal runs and 50cm for vertical.
Regarding RCD, if you already have one on your distribution unit, you’ll need to run a parallel circuit instead of attaching another in the same circuit in series. Otherwise you will get a sort of cross talk between them that will cause one of them to trip the other randomly.
DC is better detected in a Type B RCD. A max of 30mA and NOT a single pole RCBO. Some charger manufacturers quote the need for an RDC-DD (Residual Direct Current Disconnecting Device). But granny chargers are AC only. Most home chargers are. They might only be saying that in case some of the other components go pop. The car itself will likely already have an RDCdd installed so, adding both is just redundancy.
In my install for the granny is a separate Garage type distribution (consumer) unit (from screwfix or B&Q) that runs parallel to the main distro. It has a 40A 30mA Type AC RCD with a 32A MCB and a disabled 6A MCB. A single timed spur socket from the 32A to ONLY run the charger is fine.
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If you take reasonable precautions to manage the trip hazard the size of the cable is as much as uneven pavements may be so doesn't really represent an additional risk. You could use the ramped cable cover which often has a yellow rib in it for better visibility.

A friend was working on his car so had an extension cable across the pavement quite regularly. Bright yellow and made to sit flat on the ground but he put a pair of cleaning "A" boards at either end. The jobsworth that turned up one time as a representative of the council didn't object to the cable but said the "A" boards were "street furniture" and couldn't be used without permission.

He was fairly sure it was a annoying neighbour that reported it and that may be your biggest problem.
 
Yep. I am using a good low profile black and yellow cable cover. And my neighbours all have a pretty good relationship with us and each other, even more so now with lockdowns.
As a note to anyone, A-boards cannot be deemed Street Furniture and they are not usually weighed down in position or likely to cause injury like a temporary road sign might. If someone trips on them it is their own fault for not paying attention in the wide majority of occasions. A-boards are bright and lightweight! If the disabled and blind can navigate them then any imbecile should be able.
 
smokie said:
The OP said he only does about 60 miles per week so I get why he wouldn't want the cost of a full charger.
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Same here, I only do about 50 miles a week and if it wasn't for the fact that a 7kW charger was included free in the deal I got with the car, I would have been Granny charging only.
FWIW I get about 25-30 free miles each week as well when I go to Tescos so I would have only been using the Granny for about 3 or 4 hours a week. As it is I just use the home Pod Point one a month to top up and balance.
 
Ozzie1989 said:
I feel for you in that circumstance!

I've seen videos of one city where, for a fee, they install a channel in the pavement with a lid so you can lay your cable in it and it's flush. Can't remember where but seems like an obvious long term solution and quite easy to do in reality.
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This would be a great solution for those who don't have off street parking eg. terraces. Too much of a common sense solution to see it implemented here in the uk though.
 
In theory yes. In reality, those in terraced housing without off-street parking inevitably cannot park outside their own property, duct or no duct, they can't charge their vehicles.

Street lamp chargers would resolve this, however you're now paying public charging rates.
 
Lguk said:
In theory yes. In reality, those in terraced housing without off-street parking inevitably cannot park outside their own property, duct or no duct, they can't charge their vehicles.

Street lamp chargers would resolve this, however you're now paying public charging rates.
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it depends on how dense the terraces are. we always parked outside our home when i was a kid as most of the terraces were 3 beds so there was space for at least 1 to 2 cars outside each property. would be more of an issue with rows and rows of 2up-2downs. they aren't the only types of properties that would benefit though. there are lots of less dense properties without off street parking.

As with any infrastructure solutions a mix of options would be best.
 
Is the granny charger waterproof? I can’t see it has an IP rating marked on it.
 
I checked mine when I first got as I used it outside for about a month before getting my 7.5 kw EVSE
 
Dino said:
Is the granny charger waterproof? I can’t see it has an IP rating marked on it.
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The car end is the same as all other cables and I imagine would be classed as waterproof.

But the other end is just a regular 13A plug so no, it isn't. You'd be able to plug it into a proper weather proof socket though, if you have one.
 
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