Why are legacy car makers so behind in the EV game?

N

neilp7865

Established Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
196
Reaction score
148
Points
56
Location
Newcastle
Driving
Not an MG
Actively looking for a family car and narrowed by choice down to an MG5 (waiting for the Europe facelift to come to UK), ZS EV or the Cupra Born (bit sceptical on the latter because of the ID3s fiddly controls and poor interior)

I have really enjoyed my last two Honda Civics and found them reliable, economical and well sized for a family.

Why are Honda only offering the “e” with a very small range? Why do Ford with all their might and scale only offer the Mustang MachE and an electric Focus/Fiesta don’t even seem on the horizon?

EVs are ramping up, and I suspect this is an upwards curve where the gov ban by 2030 will be exceeded by default.

Any one else surprised/baffled? Will Ford and GM become HMV/Blockbuster vs NIO/Rivian etc becoming the Spotify and Netflix?
 
put simply they have to much investment tied up in dead dinosaur juice engines and see lower profit due to less servicing costs (no cam belts oil changes, plug changes) and all the other reasons to get you back into a dealer or shop to remove notes from your wallet

fewer hot oily bits moving against it means more reliable cars, more reliable cars means fewer visits to the shop, fewer visits means less spares sold which means less profit for the manufacturers

added to that the manufacturers will need to employ more software and electronics dev staff and move into areas they know little about

the flip side of this is that new manufacturers like tesla have the knowledge of software and electronics but little about car design / building, over on the ioniq forum someone posted a link to a video of a researcher taking a tesla apart to see how well it was built, early models had far more bits of metal in for example the wheel arches that a ford so longer to produce the part
 
As mentioned, they have their eggs in the ICE basket. Why switch the Fiesta/Focus (very high volume products) to an EV drivetrain when you've got warehouses full of ecoboost engines?

The MachE has the Mustang badge on it as it offsets the v8 models for federal laws on production. Its why Chevrolet are ending their production of the Camaro.

They will hedge their bets and release EV models at the Nth hour in 2028/9 across the model range. I'm also predicting a surge in ICE purchases at this point by those that really don't want to make the change and will be buying themselves 10+ years of still being able to use dino juice.
 
Because they don't think there is a large market yet

With the general public suffering range anxiety, too much in a hurry to cope with en route charging times and the (real) worry about the lack of points available they are not willing to change.

Hybrids are not a real solution as they almost certainly will rarely be fully charged and lugging around a heavy flat battery does nothing for fuel economy.
 
Cannibalism is the main answer. Once the margins and incentives on EV’s temp them further away they will eat their own ICE range for dinner - but not yet.
 
I think consumers still have range anxiety despite the improvements in battery tech over the years.

Also many many people don't have the option of home charging so more public chargers (both locations and physical charger machines) is still an issue before more people will consider evs.

Shame because I think once you take a test drive you'll be converted.
 
Fuel gauge on my daily diesel has gone up the spout, I'm gauging it on the trip meter since last refill. I totally understand the range anxiety bit.
 
The likes of Ford are taking a risk because their competitors will already have heaps of experience with mainstream electric vehicles before they also jump onto the EV band wagon. It's interesting to see how EV uptake has moved from East to West with the Far East at the forefront followed by Europe and the USA dragging way behind.
Admittedly the picture is a bit different for non legacy car makers like Tesla but it will very interesting to see who rises to dominance across the pond in the future.
 
Diesels have been taking a hit for some time due to Low Emission Zones and the general realization that diesels are not as clean as was 1st thought.

Increased range overall is helping but the lack of charge points remains a big obstacle, in part because we don't really know what is going to be enough to satisfy demand.
 
the problem i have at the moment is to replace my current 5 year old hybrid with the same model is about £24K new or about £20k for 1 year old

to replace with a plugin or EV version of the same is an additional £12K - £15k

i discounted the MG 5EV LR due to old tech compared to my current car

the ZS EV LR i am on the fence with on tech, but price is £6K - 8K more than another hybrid and in 5 years i have spent £6 on fuel

for a car i have done 3000 miles the last 2 years or 15-20,000 miles when i am doing more site visits for work

a lot of money to tie up to look pretty on the drive
 
jared said:
I think consumers still have range anxiety despite the improvements in battery tech over the years.

Also many many people don't have the option of home charging so more public chargers (both locations and physical charger machines) is still an issue before more people will consider evs.

Shame because I think once you take a test drive you'll be converted.
Click to expand...
Agreed
We swapped one ICE for a PHEV a year ago. Both independently found ourselves groaning when it switched to petrol and find the process of filling up with petrol an annoying experience now!
 
I understand Siac is owned by the Chinese Goverment. I wonder why it is that the Chinese Goverment can be so successful when ours couldn’t even make anything successful out of the entire British car design and manufacturing industry in British Leyland. I would love to be able to buy a British EV designed and built here with parts made here and export it everywhere. The profits could save future generations from the massive financial burden COVID is going to dump on them.
 
That's a very pertinent point because it always used to be the case that Chinese manufacturing undercut pretty much everything (and certainly the UK) because the labour cost was dirt cheap. In the EV world however, they are building cars in high tech factories using high levels of automation. We could do that if only there was a willingness to invest in the technology and infrastructure.
 
Put simply.

Western legacy manufacturers plan for the present and build cars for a 5 year production run before changing the model, base platforms & engines for 10 years. Their profits come from spares & services not the sales of new cars. They have invested interests in the past, legacy and oil. Their debt exceeds their ability to pay the repayments so no money exists to invest

China & Tesla plan 20-30 years ahead and update their productions runs frequently to adapt to the latest technology, ways of improving reliability & reducing costs. They have no interest in the spares & servicing business as their profits come from new car sales. They have no interest in the past, legacy or oil. Investors abound, debt is small.

Many legacy manufacturers will not be here in 10 years, GM is noted as the most vulnerable.
 
EVsince2016 said:
Put simply.

Western legacy manufacturers plan for the present and build cars for a 5 year production run before changing the model, base platforms & engines for 10 years. Their profits come from spares & services not the sales of new cars. They have invested interests in the past, legacy and oil. Their debt exceeds their ability to pay the repayments so no money exists to invest

China & Tesla plan 20-30 years ahead and update their productions runs frequently to adapt to the latest technology, ways of improving reliability & reducing costs. They have no interest in the spares & servicing business as their profits come from new car sales. They have no interest in the past, legacy or oil. Investors abound, debt is small.

Many legacy manufacturers will not be here in 10 years, GM is noted as the most vulnerable.
Click to expand...

I agree, GM and Ford in particular seem massively behind the curve. I note Ford is due to release some cars using VW’s platform but they must be paying for that making their versions more expensive (for Ford). Stellantis have clearly invested and bringing out a decent range of EVs with good range..
 
neilp7865 said:
Stellantis have clearly invested and bringing out a decent range of EVs with good range..
Click to expand...
Unfortunately using a legacy base platform making them tiny inside versus an EV platform thus most unattractive in comparison.
 
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

New EVs from MG: MG S9 & MG9 plus hot topics from the forums
Published
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom