Pay per mile

The functionality is already here with most EV’s (as long as they use an app with remote connectivity), using this remote connectivity to track mileage and usage would not be difficult, it just needs to be adopted and linked to a charging system. We’re already tracked through our mobile phones, so just another method to add to the list.

Any sort of real time tracker will need a significant upgrade to the mobile phone network. Where I live we have only just got 4G never mind 5G and many areas have no coverage.

A system the dealerships would like is a compulsory service every year/10,000 miles with fines for non compliance. They get their regular income back and the government get their mileage data and an income from the fines.

A lose - lose scenario for the owners.

There won't be any forms, this isn't 1974! It'll be black box which will also cover much more - your insurance and any infractions (e.g. speeding) for example. It's not 1974 for sure, but it's starting to feel like 1984 (again).

Thinking about it, black boxes are probably no longer en vogue. It could all be done be smartphone but knowing about government IT projects, we'd be lucky if this is in place by 2120 so perhaps we haven't gotten anything to worry about after all!

jamesie said:

Any sort of real time tracker will need a significant upgrade to the mobile phone network. Where I live we have only just got 4G never mind 5G and many areas have no coverage.

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It could easily store info and transmit it when it has coverage ;-)

chowbenter said:

I should imagine by the time 2030 comes around all cars will be fitted with V2X (vehicle to everything communication chips through 5G. The system will communicate with the car via street furniture, traffic lights & sensors embedded in roadways, It will know exactly what time on what roads when & where you drive & bill your account accordingly. Intelligent Traffic Systems and V2X Communication – If Cars Could Talk | Cleantech Group

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This system was tested using satellite technology, and it worked.

ARealHuman said:

There won't be any forms, this isn't 1974! It'll be black box which will also cover much more - your insurance and any infractions (e.g. speeding) for example. It's not 1974 for sure, but it's starting to feel like 1984 (again).

Thinking about it, black boxes are probably no longer en vogue. It could all be done be smartphone but knowing about government IT projects, we'd be lucky if this is in place by 2120 so perhaps we haven't gotten anything to worry about after all!

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On line forms in the 21st century. Hundreds of them.

I think a flat fee based on vehicle weight paid as Road Tax would be easiest. In any case the Gov is raking in money from EV's 25% Green "levy" aka tax, and 5% VAT on electric.

I have “by miles” for my car insurance and have a very small dongle in the car, very simple & effective for tracking mileage - pretty cheap too I’d have thought. Seems like the obvious solution, with numerous benefits.

JodyS21 said:

I have “by miles” for my car insurance and have a very small dongle in the car, very simple & effective for tracking mileage - pretty cheap too I’d have thought. Seems like the obvious solution, with numerous benefits.

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How does that work do you know? Does the dongle have a sim card and gps? What if you remove it or it stops working?

Cocijo said:

How does that work do you know? Does the dongle have a sim card and gps? What if you remove it or it stops working?

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Probably easy to fiddle too.

Gadget Geek said:

Unless at the MOT the recorded mileage is used as a reference.

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Agree but what about cars that don't yet qualify for an MOT ?

Edoc16 said:

Agree but what about cars that don't yet qualify for an MOT ?

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I had commented before - yesterday in fact - about using the MOT mileage and that cars under three years old would not have had one. See my post no.10 in this thread to read my full thoughts on this.

Cocijo said:

How does that work do you know? Does the dongle have a sim card and gps? What if you remove it or it stops working?

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It must have a sim inside it and gps.
It’s powered via the obd2 socket.
It can run basic obd2 diagnostics remotely too.
For insurance purposes, if it’s not plugged in then they know & assume you’d have issues should there be an incident and it’s not plugged in….

In regards to something similar being used for road tax purposes, I would presume it could reasonably easily be enforced by using some ANPR fixed cameras around the country and when they register your number plate they can check that your dongle has registered it was in the same location at that time.

Personally for some time now I’ve thought that the government should implement this system and use it for speeding too, it could be made optional - pay a fixed expensive “road tax” or have the box fitted & accept potential speeding fines via it!

bwanamdevu said:

I had commented before - yesterday in fact - about using the MOT mileage and that cars under three years old would not have had one. See my post no.10 in this thread to read my full thoughts on this.

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I also commented on this yesterday.

Think about it like you pay for electricity by kWh. You estimate your yearly usage, they set up a monthly direct debit and adjust it as the real usage data comes in.

Estimate your yearly mileage, pay for it (lump sum or direct debit) and balance the books at the end of the year. At your first MOT if you have adjusted your payments over the last 3 years, it shouldn't be too much of a difference.

I read an article the other day that this year new cars will have to be fitted with mandatory Intelligent Speed Limiters etc. so they will already have all the data they need to charge you via GPS logging of miles covered...

"The mandatory speed limiters will be introduced at the same time as a raft of other safety equipment, which includes data loggers, autonomous emergency braking, lane keep assist, a driver fatigue detection system, reversing sensors or cameras, and pre-wiring for alcohol interlock devices. All new models given type approval from May 2022 onwards will be required to have these systems, while models on the market prior to that date must have them by May 2024."

I imagine you'll set up a direct debit and they'll just charge you at the end of each week or month for miles covered, plus add on any speeding infringements for overriding the ISL, and fine you for sitting in the seat whilst over the drink drive limit. After all that they'll let your insurance company have the data too and they'll start charging us based on it

bwanamdevu said:

I read that a vast network of ANPR cameras would be needed to log the mileage done as well as a little black box installed in each and every vehicle. I can just imagine the contracts that would go out to install these as well. Maybe we will have them as soon as they have finished their public EV chargers network!

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Last time I was in the UK it appeared there was already a vast network of ANPR cameras - virtually every road in London has them, every motorway junction and many of the trunk roads we travelled on.

Whilst I know it's nowhere near everywhere covered, I think there are far more already in place than most people realise (probably to do with the fact that RFL discs are no longer required to be displayed), it certainly made us feel very 'observed' wherever we went and it was a nice feeling to get back to rural France where the closest we ever see to an ANPR camera is someone taking a selfie with their phone ;-)

Try driving in Paris and compare that with London. Rural UK is no different to rural France as far as cameras are concerned.

Does anybody really think if the Government or even the Russian or USA Government wanted to know how many miles my car had done this year, they couldn‘t easily find out? We are being watched all the time.

Wendycar127 said:

Morning all, I read an article that the government are considering how to tax ev owners moving forward. One of the suggestions was a pay per mile scheme. Has anyone else read any articles on what the future is likely to be for ev owners once incentives are gone.

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In Victoria, Australia, we have a pay per km tax which is almost triple what we should be paying. These are Australian figures but you could work out the situation in Britain. It looks at battery and petrol in terms of energy equivalence. The average EV owner in Victoria is paying about twice as much for fuel as a petrol car owner in energy terms. (One interesting thing to note is that the MG ZS EV short range battery holds energy equivalent to about 4.5 litres, 1.12 gallons, of petrol.

Cost of petrol in Victoria should be raised to $3.52 per litre to maintain parity with electric vehicles.

Cost of petrol

In these days of petrol car drivers complaining about the price of petrol, how would they like to pay $3.52 per litre? We do. Let us compare petrol and electricity in energy terms. Say a litre of petrol costs $1.67.* Of that, 42 cents is excise duty (actually 42.7 but rounded down.)

Petrol/Electricity Conversion

The energy in a litre of petrol is 9.1 kwh. Thus, a “litre equivalent” of electricity is 9.1 kwh.

Cost of Electricity

Assuming we are paying 25 cents per kwh** we are looking at a cost of $2.27 per litre equivalent. So in energy terms we are already paying 36% more for our electricity than petrol users are paying for their petrol. (Note: we are paying 36% more to buy a cleaner form of energy!)

EV tax compared to petrol excise

Now how much tax are we paying per litre equivalent of electricity? If we take a typical EV range figure of, say, 18.2 kwh per 100 km we use 9.1 kwh i.e. one litre petrol equivalent per 50 km. At 2.5 cents per kilometre tax we pay $1.25. That is an additional tax of $1.25 per litre; the additional tax is 197% more than the petrol excise (42.7 cents). Whereas a motorist may pay $1.67 per litre (which includes the excise), the EV owner is paying $3.52; $2.27 plus $1.25 tax, totalling $3.52.

*State average as at 27 January 2021

** Typical general rate price of home electricity. Obviously, some with solar pay less and others who charge at charging stations pay more.