Do we need friction brakes anymore?

[Cocijo]

It struck me that on some EV’s regenerative braking can be quite strong. We know that friction brakes don’t get much use. Are we just a small step away from completely removing friction brakes and using purely regen? I assume that the software and motors could be configured to brake the car with equal force to that of friction brakes?

 

[Jomarkh]

I don't think regen can bring the car to a complete stop and they certainly don't stop quick enough in an emergency

 

[Cocijo]

I agree - not now. But could they be configured to take the place of friction brakes?

 

[C6MFC]

So that would be no bakes at all, until the regen had somewhere to go if battery full.

Trains use regen and even those huge bi-mode trains that run under wires (somewhere for energy to go in regen), when running on diesel and therefore no overhead wire to take the regen energy they have massive capacitors on the roof to change the energy in to heat.

We just need somewhere for the energy/heat to go.............still need friction for holding car and as said above full emergency braking.

The term "one foot driving" still means you use friction brakes at times, but where safe the regen can do all down to a standstill.

 

[bwanamdevu]

I hope that friction brakes never disappear! I would always rely on them in an emergency.

 

[Alb]

It certainly could be done but it wouldn't be a fail safe system.

 

[djenson]

It struck me that on some EV’s regenerative braking can be quite strong. We know that friction brakes don’t get much use. Are we just a small step away from completely removing friction brakes and using purely regen? I assume that the software and motors could be configured to brake the car with equal force to that of friction brakes?

Nah, no thanks. We've already seen complete electrical failures on almost all EV's. You would be relying on 1 system for everything. Steering (servotronic), Acceleration (obviously a motor) and breaking with regen. Hydraulic brakes work, and that's it. There's already redundancy built in with dual master cylinders. Regeneration can become stronger and used in almost all cases, great, but I want my car to be able to stop, even if the electrics have taken a s***.

 

[chromeskull]

If Regen cannot put energy into the system, could they not use energy instead in the form of reverse to slow it to a stop (would still need friction brakes to hold as its bad for the electric motor).
When parking my car I put it in reverse while its coasting forwards (all be it very slow).

 

[JohnInFrance]

It struck me that on some EV’s regenerative braking can be quite strong. We know that friction brakes don’t get much use. Are we just a small step away from completely removing friction brakes and using purely regen? I assume that the software and motors could be configured to brake the car with equal force to that of friction brakes?

Urm, in a word, yes.

I wonder how well your regen braking will work next time a child / dog / tyrannosaurus etc. runs into the road in front of you?

 

[sido]

Even planes using full reverse thrust need brakes, can’t really see this happening in my lifetime. Surely if technology improves KERS will generate more power and the braking effect will reduce.

 

[Cocijo]

Urm, in a word, yes.

I wonder how well your regen braking will work next time a child / dog / tyrannosaurus etc. runs into the road in front of you?

My regen braking will work the same as everyone elses - how it’s designed to work. And , like everyone else my friction brakes will be there to be used as they are designed to.
My post was inviting discussion on if regen braking in the future with new technology and changes could take ever over from friction brakes.
I wonder what the dinosaur’s name might be?

 

[Alb]

No new technology needed.
Electronic braking (including emergency) of rotating devices has been around for decades.

 

[JohnInFrance]

.... I wonder what the dinosaur’s name might be?

Toby, everyone knows that ;-)

 

[Cocijo]

No new technology needed.
Electronic braking (including emergency) of rotating devices has been around for decades.

I agree. I do think that the legacy of friction braking will disappear on EV’s - as soon as it’s commercially viable.

 

[Hairyfool]

The energy recovery (which is the braking effect) reduces the slower the vehicle gets and virtually disappears before the vehicle stops so is not a suitable alternative.

It is possible to magnetically lock the motor but this in itself consumes power so is not what is wanted in an eco vehicle.

 

[Cocijo]

I’m far from an expert on this. Isn’t the higher the speed the more kinetic energy available to transform to electrical energy - and this is when most braking is needed - when the vehicle slows less kenitic energy is available but also less braking effort is required. As far as a sort of parking brake is concerned using magnets - no idea perhaps a spring brake as used in commercial vehicle brakes? Dunno.

 

[ARealHuman]

Easy to solve this, Anthill Mob style - holes in the floor so you can put your feet down as brakes

 

[EVsince2016]

I think that friction brakes will be gone in 10 years. Problems with unused rusting discs will grow.

Although regen doesn't work with a full battery of at slow speeds modern electronic / magnetic braking systems do and are a lot better.

 

[Deleted member 3150]

My 1955 triumph speed twin motorcycle has frictionless breaks, must have been years ahead of its time. No matter how hard you squeezed and pressed, it’s boot down for effective breaking

 

[AnonymouseDriva]

No new technology needed.
Electronic braking (including emergency) of rotating devices has been around for decades.

so not KERS as such (as in recovering power) but powered resistance (so consuming power to apply a braking force).
Might make it difficult to stop when your battery goes flat though...