To phev or not to phev - well to phev is the answer for me

[jem111111]

Hi all I hope you can give me some advice re the MG HS Phev.
I might be ready to replace my car ( 6 year old diesel) and was looking at either replacing it with a petrol , Ev or phev. But I do fancy a SUV and perhaps dipping my toes into the EV market.
As we go camping a lot to remote areas , where there are very few chargers ( eg cornwall , Wales and Northumberland) i have ruled out the MG ZS as it does not have the range i would like and i feel i would suffer with range anxiety once on site. The MG 5 was ok but didn't really like it compared to the ZS or HS Phev ,problems with roof rails is also a minus point, but the new model in China looks better.
So not wanting to go full EV yet ( I will wait a few more years for better long distance batteries and network charging infrastructure to improve)
I have looked at the MG HS phev exclusive and loved it ( test drive after lockdown after 12th April) , but not really knowing much about phevs ( apart from seeing Miles excellent video) I though I would ask your opinions.
What's it like to drive . I'm not a boy racer lol
What MPH are you getting? , or is the latest report in the papers correct in saying its worse than a diesel ( I will assume the report states this as people are not plugging it in to charge the battery when required, which defeats the object of having a Phev)
What are peoples likes / dislikes?
Would you recommend it?.
I have seen the thread with the gearbox issue in EV mode only , do I assume in hybrid mode this is not seen so is it a problem?
Do people tend to use EV mode or leave it in hybrid what are the advantages / disadvantages
Can you use the roof rails?
Sorry this is a long post
Thanks for any feedback you can give

 

[Cocijo]

I have the ZS so I’m not qualified to answer most of your queries - but I’ll be interested to see owners responses.
I will say though that if you’re going to ramp up some high mileages and do some long trips you are probably going to be better to stick with an economic diesel. This opinion is based on friends who run hybrids - most have said the consumption if they use the car a lot for longer journeys is worse than a diesel only car - but for shorter journeys it’s great. I guess it’s about deciding how it fits your needs and taking into account the added complexity and cost of a hybrid.
It’s a pity that the ZS doesn’t suit your needs as it’s a great car. I’ve travelled from the midlands to Porthleven in Cornwall in my ZS and it is quite a trek that needs careful planning. i wouldn’t want to do it regularly. If you’re not prepared to take your time and plan ahead it can be a real pain. Good luck with your choice.

 

[jem111111]

Hi Cocijo thanks for replying.
Yes its a difficult one as i have to weigh up various factors re consumption.
Do i keep with a petrol / diesel for another 5-6 years so by then hopefully the battery range will improve, hopefully the charging network will improve and also the cost will actually come down,
Do i go for a full EV , but on the times we go camping ( or visiting friends in these places ) have the pressure of charging on route , then once there the problems of finding chargers to get enough mileage for days out ( which as you says require a lot of planning and I feel I would spend more time worrying about the charge left and where to get some for days out , that I would not enjoy the relaxing break lol)
Or do I go down the route , that I'm happy to use the battery of the Phev for a lot of my normal journeys so get ( hopefully) a good MPG consumption, then take the" hit" on the MPG consumption when we go camping etc , but with the knowledge that i do not have to worry re charging as even in these remote places there are still plenty of petrol garages around.
So at the moment I am leaning towards the latter hence all my questions

 

[Cocijo]

Yes - makes sense. It will be interesting to see what owners think of their HS.

 

[Henri8]

Well Jem, as far as I know there are only three Plug In owners so far that reacted on this forum.
This forum started only at the beginning of this month so do not expect to many reactions..
I did not use mine for long stretches yet which means I do not have milage figures yet.
I only have almost 1000km behind me of which at least 800 in the EV mode. Tank still 2/3 filled with a capacity of 37 liters only.
Apart from my two issues with EV driving I enjoy the car very much. All test drives online seem to cover the main items on deciding on this type I think.
You mention usage of your car with a camper behind. Realise that the rear bagage compartment is not very large. In fact not larger than the ZS. It is more narrow and lower than the petrol HS version. The floor can not be lowered ( fuel tank and 12 V battery) and the spaces behind the wheel wells are filled up with electrical devices as well. With lowered seat backrests you do have more space than the ZS. Back seats have a lot of space available. I first owned a ZS and I could place a carry on golf bag sideways in the back behind the wheel wells. Now I have to lower one seat back unfortunately. Suspension is rather stiff when crossing speed bumps.
I still use a Granny charger which takes 6,5 hours to fill from empty. I sleep longer, so no problem for me. ( 8km/hr against 12km/hr for the ZS)
Happy to answer any other question!

 

[jem111111]

Hi Henri8 thanks for your reply. So you did own a ZS previously , but now have the Phev. Is that something you regret now or are you more than happy with the phev
Which one is better to drive
thanks

 

[Jeps]

Hi Jem. I'm not the most qualified to answer your question, I'm an ZS EV owner.
For me i prefer the complete smoothness of how an EV drives, and then I will be happy driving 98-99% of the time like that. The rest 1-2% I will carefully try to figure out about how to get around because I really love EV driving.
I am living in little tiny Denmark, and here I am not worried about how to charge up in case I need it. But I guess the trips you will be going is a lot different then what I do.
In case you like the idea of going purely EV, I don't see the idea of waiting maybe 5-6 years! There are cars with big battery's already, and I don't see a trend in bigger batteries are going to get much bigger in comming years. The development goes more into charging faster.

 

[Frank]

Hi all I hope you can give me some advice re the MG HS Phev.
I might be ready to replace my car ( 6 year old diesel) and was looking at either replacing it with a petrol , Ev or phev. But I do fancy a SUV and perhaps dipping my toes into the EV market.
As we go camping a lot to remote areas , where there are very few chargers ( eg cornwall , Wales and Northumberland) i have ruled out the MG ZS as it does not have the range i would like and i feel i would suffer with range anxiety once on site. The MG 5 was ok but didn't really like it compared to the ZS or HS Phev ,problems with roof rails is also a minus point, but the new model in China looks better.
So not wanting to go full EV yet ( I will wait a few more years for better long distance batteries and network charging infrastructure to improve)
I have looked at the MG HS phev exclusive and loved it ( test drive after lockdown after 12th April) , but not really knowing much about phevs ( apart from seeing Miles excellent video) I though I would ask your opinions.
What's it like to drive . I'm not a boy racer lol
What MPH are you getting? , or is the latest report in the papers correct in saying its worse than a diesel ( I will assume the report states this as people are not plugging it in to charge the battery when required, which defeats the object of having a Phev)
What are peoples likes / dislikes?
Would you recommend it?.
I have seen the thread with the gearbox issue in EV mode only , do I assume in hybrid mode this is not seen so is it a problem?
Do people tend to use EV mode or leave it in hybrid what are the advantages / disadvantages
Can you use the roof rails?
Sorry this is a long post
Thanks for any feedback you can give

Hi,

If you actually do go away a lot to remote areas and you know (I mean actually know not just think) there are very few chargers then a BEV or Plug in Hybrid are not for you in my opinion. Some points to consider:-

a. ANY plug in Hybrid once the small battery is depleted is just a Petrol/Diesel car and due to the extra weight of the battery and Electric motor fuel consumption is going to be a lot worse than an equivalent size of a non hybrid car.
b. Plug in Hybrid only makes sense if you don't want to suffer either range anxiety or in my case charger anxiety for any trips longer than the battery only range (about 30 Miles if you are lucky).
c. Plug in Hybrid are perfectly ok when the majority of your trips are within the battery range and then if they are you might argue that why not go fully electric, but your camping needs seen to suggest otherwise.
d. As you mentioned for a plug in Hybrid to be any use you MUST keep the battery charged all the time, but after 30 Miles it will be depleted and here is the worst bit, to recharge is fully will take you about 4 hours. Main reason for this is that you can only A.C. charge it and A.C. Chargers are slow.
e. Plug in Hybrid are, complex, expensive and only make sense to me if can't deal with all the planning and charging constraints you will suffer from once you go past the very limited battery range.

Based on the description of your needs I would as some other member mentioned buy an SUV that is purely Petrol or Diesel.

There is of course many EVS out there, Kona and e-niro that have real world ranges of 250 Miles but if where you go camping is as you think berift of chargers then that might be a bad idea.


So Hybrids in my opinion are actually not worth it, either go full electric or stay with petrol or diesel vehicles. Just buy the petrol version of the HS, Exclusive, it's a nice car, I would buy one if going back to ICE cars.

Lastly before making a decision investigate fully using zap-map of any other find a charger app to actually determine what chargers are available in your camping stomping grounds, you may be surprised.

Frank


PS When checking for chargers on the apps you need to be aware of the following:-

If driving a plug in Hybrid, ONLY A.C. Chargers are of any use to you and again remember to charge to full once empty it will take about 4 hours (as much use as a chocolate frying pan).

If you were driving a fully electric car you are looking for RAPID DC Chargers which on average can charge from empty to 80-100% in about 40 mins to 80% and 100% in about 90 mins. Unlike Hybrids fully electric cars can also use A.C. Chargers but slow, to fully charge or even to 80% would take on average 7 hours so effectively only DC Chargers are useful for fully electric when charging away from home.

 

[Henri8]

Hi Henri8 thanks for your reply. So you did own a ZS previously , but now have the Phev. Is that something you regret now or are you more than happy with the phev
Which one is better to drive
thanks

The ZS is a joy to drive. Coming from a Volvo XC60 however the change in size was too big.
Also I found out that my overproduction of solar panels did not compensate the use of an EV because I drive short distances mainly and do not need lots of KW's. I did not like the fact that the heater system of the ZS did not have automatic functions. Always too hot or too cold.
Frank has good points against Phev but driving Hybrid with an empty battery will not happen as the Engine will always charge the battery to a chosen level.
I am more happy with the Phev in my circumstances.

 

[Frank]

The ZS is a joy to drive. Coming from a Volvo XC60 however the change in size was too big.
Also I found out that my overproduction of solar panels did not compensate the use of an EV because I drive short distances mainly and do not need lots of KW's. I did not like the fact that the heater system of the ZS did not have automatic functions. Always too hot or too cold.
Frank has good points against Phev but driving Hybrid with an empty battery will not happen as the Engine will always charge the battery to a chosen level.
I am more happy with the Phev in my circumstances.

Hi Henri8,

Sorry, a Plug In Hybrid does NOT get charged by the engine, you have to plug it in to a external charging source.

There are other Hybrids called self charging Hybrids that do receive a charge from the Petrol/Diesel Engine but they are just an aide to make the Petrol/Diesel more efficient and if I am correct Self Charging Hybrids CAN'T drive purely on Electric mode only which basically defeats the object of trying to go Electric!!!! I think you are getting confused with the different types of Hybrid vehicles.

Regards

Frank

PS Do you have the MG HS PHEV, if you do then you have to plug it in to charge the electric battery as it is a Plug In Hybrid (the name sort of gives the game away).

 

[Henri8]

Hi Henri8,

Sorry, a Plug In Hybrid does NOT get charged by the engine, you have to plug it in to a external charging source.

There are other Hybrids called self charging Hybrids that do receive a charge from the Petrol/Diesel Engine but they are just an aide to make the Petrol/Diesel more efficient and if I am correct Self Charging Hybrids CAN'T drive purely on Electric mode only which basically defeats the object of trying to go Electric!!!! I think you are getting confused with the different types of Hybrid vehicles.

Regards

Frank

PS Do you have the MG HS PHEV, if you do then you have to plug it in to charge the electric battery as it is a Plug In Hybrid (the name sort of gives the game away).

Ok Frank, let me say that I am NOT an expert on this, but have a look at this screen shot from the User manual.

 

[Cocijo]

I asked the same question here;

Miles Roberts' in-car review of the MG HS PHEV for Chorley Group

www.mgevs.com

 

[Frank]

Ok Frank, let me say that I am NOT an expert on this, but have a look at this screen shot from the User manual.

Henri8,

Strange, by definition Plug In Hybrids do NOT receive any charge from the engine but from an external source. Also if it does receive a charge from the engine it will be very small and I would not think it would actually manage to charge the battery from empty to full no matter how far your journey is.

After all with a home charger it takes many hours to charge from empty to full and that is from a 7kwh source. No way on this earth would a petrol engine be able to put that output out without using a vast amount of fuel to do so.

So I still think someone is being misinformed (aka Mg with the roof rails of the MG5 scenario). Ask Miles next time on the podcasts (If you run out of battery on your MG HS PHEV on a long trip how long it will take (if it does at all, and it won't, I am sure) for the battery to be fully charged again?


I do not like giving poor advice so I am going to investigate this myself on the different types of Hybrids (which I thought I knew) however your information seems to discredit my knowledge but I will get back to you.

Regards

Frank

 

[Frank]

What is a hybrid?​

Commonly called hybrid electric vehicles (HEV), as the definition above suggests, a hybrid car is simply one that relies on two different power sources for motion. The two different power sources are typically petrol and electricity (most common in the US) and diesel and electricity (which can be found in Europe).

There are three main types of hybrid vehicle; full hybrids, mild hybrids and plug-in hybrids.

• A full hybrid (FHEV) can run on just the combustion engine (i.e. diesel/petrol), the electric engine (i.e. power from batteries), or a combination. The Toyota Prius is the most commonly known example of this. A full hybrid is not plugged in to recharge; the battery is recharged by running the combustion engine.
• A mild hybrid has an electric motor and combustion engine which always work together. An example of this is the Honda Accord Hybrid. Mild hybrids cannot run in just electric or just combustion engine mode; the engines/motors always work in parallel.
• A plug-in hybrid (PHEV), as the name suggests, requires plugging into the mains in order to fully recharge its battery. PHEVs can be run in just electric mode.

The technology involved​

The three types of hybrid all share features in order to work. The goal of a hybrid is to use the electric portion of the drivetrain as much as possible without compromising performance. Harmful emissions are reduced and the fuel efficiency of the car increases. This is because the electric motor is more efficient than a combustion engine and produces no emissions.

An exception to such a goal may be the La Ferrari, McLaren P1 and Porsche 918. These high performance cars use their electric motors to maximise performance, rather than maximise their efficiency and eco-friendliness.

“We wanted to use the hybrid technology to boost performances, like in F1, rather than use it just to reduce fuel consumption and emissions”
Roberto Fedeli, Ferrari’s technical director

As mentioned above, to power the electric portion of a hybrid engine, a hybrid vehicle must carry a battery. The size of the battery varies depending on how much the vehicle is designed to depend on it, and the way in which the battery is recharged depends on the size of the battery.

For example, a plug-in hybrid can partially recharge whilst a car is being driven but usually needs to be plugged into the mains in order to fully recharge its large battery. It is not efficient for the combustion engine to fully recharge the battery on the go.

The smaller batteries in full and mild hybrids can be recharged in a number of different ways:

Regenerative Braking​

Without such a system this kinetic energy would be lost – mainly in the form of heat as the brake pads of the car heat up due to friction of the brake pad on the brake disc.


Yes, it appears that you are right the engine can charge the battery but and a big but, it will only keep it very slightly charged as the ICE component of the Hybrid is just not capable of providing enough charge to fully charge it in an efficient way. It must be plugged in to an external source to make any sense.

The camping guy who is thinking of buying an PHEV does not have the driving requirements to make a PHEV viable in my opinion.

It would be interesting to find out how long one would have to drive in ICE mode only to actually charge the battery to full, I would think it is NOT financially viable in any way but I could be wrong!!

Regards

Frank

​

 

[jem111111]

Hi Frank and all , thanks for your replies it is very interesting to see the discussion and try to understand it all.
That's the reason I have asked the questions to get a reply from real drivers of the Phevs to give me their opinions and hopefully MPG figures.
Henri8 has commented that there are only 3 phev drivers that have replied on this phev sub section since it was created a month ago , so perhaps its a bit early for people to get the phev and drive it and comment .
Frank that is an interesting question re the charging of the battery while in ICE mode as that might suggest ( depending on distance and battery charging amount) after a journey I still have battery left for a few miles , which I could use when on the camp site keeping the air cleaner for everybody
Thanks again

 

[Henri8]

Henri8,

Strange, by definition Plug In Hybrids do NOT receive any charge from the engine but from an external source. Also if it does receive a charge from the engine it will be very small and I would not think it would actually manage to charge the battery from empty to full no matter how far your journey is.

After all with a home charger it takes many hours to charge from empty to full and that is from a 7kwh source. No way on this earth would a petrol engine be able to put that output out without using a vast amount of fuel to do so.

So I still think someone is being misinformed (aka Mg with the roof rails of the MG5 scenario). Ask Miles next time on the podcasts (If you run out of battery on your MG HS PHEV on a long trip how long it will take (if it does at all, and it won't, I am sure) for the battery to be fully charged again?


I do not like giving poor advice so I am going to investigate this myself on the different types of Hybrids (which I thought I knew) however your information seems to discredit my knowledge but I will get back to you.

Regards

Frank

Thanks Frank for explaining all the different Hybrid versions, however in this case I have to conclude that it does charge and I can even choose 3 options.
Look at the description in the manual attached.
The fact that it takes so long to charge from a network (AC) to the battery (DC) is due to the Transformer rectifier Inside the car.
The engine has easy transfer with DC direct current.
Hope this makes sense?

 

[Frank]

Well, strike me down with a wet floppy fish. Obviously the MG HS Hybrid is pretty well advanced compared to some others, if indeed it does as it says on the manual on long trips you will still have some battery power to draw on especially when showing up some boy racer at the lights.

Happy motoring.

Regards

Frank

 

[jem111111]

Thanks Frank for explaining all the different Hybrid versions, however in this case I have to conclude that it does charge and I can even choose 3 options.
Look at the description in the manual attached.
The fact that it takes so long to charge from a network (AC) to the battery (DC) is due to the Transformer rectifier Inside the car.
The engine has easy transfer with DC direct current.
Hope this makes sense?

hi Henri8 thanks for finding that , its very interesting

 

[g4rth]

Henri8 is quite correct. If you wish the MG PHEV will keep the battery fully charged via the engine.
I bought the PHEV because I was able to use it in fully electric mode for probably 90% of the journeys I make. The majority of the other 10% are between 180 - 250 miles round trips. Most EV's would probably require a top up charge especially in cold weather or when the battery range drops off due to age. Personally I'm not prepared to break a relatively short journey to top up. For me the HS PHEV is a winner both in it's ability to cover most of my journeys in pure electric mode and it's standard equipment make it excellent value for money. I have a 7kv home charger and it takes about 3.5 hours to charge the car fully.

 

[jem111111]

Henri8 is quite correct. If you wish the MG PHEV will keep the battery fully charged via the engine.
I bought the PHEV because I was able to use it in fully electric mode for probably 90% of the journeys I make. The majority of the other 10% are between 180 - 250 miles round trips. Most EV's would probably require a top up charge especially in cold weather or when the battery range drops off due to age. Personally I'm not prepared to break a relatively short journey to top up. For me the HS PHEV is a winner both in it's ability to cover most of my journeys in pure electric mode and it's standard equipment make it excellent value for money. I have a 7kv home charger and it takes about 3.5 hours to charge the car fully.

Hi g4rth that sounds similar to how I envisage my use. Can I ask what the mph is like when you only use EV mode compared to when you do the long journeys on petrol .
What good points and bad points have you seen with the phev.
Just another thought does the phev have a charging timing schedule inbuilt , or do you have to rely on the home charger to have a timer schedule. As I was thinking if I got one then I would get a 7kw home charger and probably move onto octopus go ( as I've seen reviews online about it ) and charge at cheap times .
Thanks again.