Webasto heater ? JUST INSTALLED :-)

[JABO]

thinking if installing a heater would solve the EV mode issues, or just make them worse.....
it seems as the HS is starting the ICE not only to heat the cabin, but to charge the 12V batt as well, meaning that using heated seat, rear window heater, fan, etc. makes it use ICE, so installing a webasto would just draw even more 12V power :-( does anyone know if the 12V batt is charged when HV batt is ?
it seems that having to use ICE for heating means that pure EV is possible max 1/3 of the year, at least in DK.

 

[sky0000547]

You might be overthinking with the heat. As long as the engine is warm enough, you can run in EV mode with heater on. If the engine cools down then it will restart to get hot again. Since heated heats are electric it doesn’t need engine to heat. The HV battery will charge the 12v when necessary.

 

[JABO]

you might be right, maybe it's not that big a deal. it's what's holding me back right now....
is it fairly quick to warm up when needed ?

 

[sky0000547]

Obviously depending how cold it is and how quick the engine warm up. We are talking about 5km or maybe less.

 

[Dragonfly]

I wondered about a block heater, if that is on charge overnight anyway, putting a block heater on before you go out shouldn't be too much hassle, wether it's worth it, not so sure.

 

[Cocijo]

I’ve been following the HS and it looks a great car - vary fast too!
The car heating issue seems to hit right at the heart of how you use a hybrid. If for any short journey where you need to have the heater on, the ICE needs to be running and warm up, surely that means in winter with short trips you may as well just run an ice car? The electric side is effectively redundant until the engine warms up. Are all PHEV’s like this? Does the ICE need to run also for cooling aircon in the summer?

 

[hermitdave]

I’ve been following the HS and it looks a great car - vary fast too!
The car heating issue seems to hit right at the heart of how you use a hybrid. If for any short journey where you need to have the heater on, the ICE needs to be running and warm up, surely that means in winter with short trips you may as well just run an ice car? The electric side is effectively redundant until the engine warms up. Are all PHEV’s like this? Does the ICE need to run also for cooling aircon in the summer?

Outlander has remote heating / cooling that can be done on HV battery or mains. The ICE only comes on if temperature is too low. Outlander also forces 15l of petrol usage every 3 months

 

[VenumX]

I’ve been following the HS and it looks a great car - vary fast too!
The car heating issue seems to hit right at the heart of how you use a hybrid. If for any short journey where you need to have the heater on, the ICE needs to be running and warm up, surely that means in winter with short trips you may as well just run an ice car? The electric side is effectively redundant until the engine warms up. Are all PHEV’s like this? Does the ICE need to run also for cooling aircon in the summer?

No the airco on the EHS is battery driven.

 

[JABO]

I’ve been following the HS and it looks a great car - vary fast too!
The car heating issue seems to hit right at the heart of how you use a hybrid. If for any short journey where you need to have the heater on, the ICE needs to be running and warm up, surely that means in winter with short trips you may as well just run an ice car? The electric side is effectively redundant until the engine warms up. Are all PHEV’s like this? Does the ICE need to run also for cooling aircon in the summer?

My exact point, is soo nice, but misses the EV point, i do a lot of small commutes 3-10km, and work-home is 15km, so up to 5 km on petrol each way seems to defy it's purpose.
also looking at cupra formentor & seat leon which both has electric heatpump so all drives can be done EV. both fine vehicles but much more expensive if you want a decent level of kit, and even then the HS interior is still nicer. the actual drive is more or less on par, except for the heavy gear lag in HS EV mode.

 

[hermitdave]

I will miss remote climate and getting into the car that is pre-warned and defrosted that I had with Outlander. Defrosted windscreen will be the biggest one. Heating isn't an issue with heated seats as such and I went through winter with heating off as ICE used to come on.

As defrosting solution would be rather nice to have

 

[Dragonfly]

Yes, we have the preheat in the Leaf, surprising how often you use it in winter.

 

[jem111111]

My exact point, is soo nice, but misses the EV point, i do a lot of small commutes 3-10km, and work-home is 15km, so up to 5 km on petrol each way seems to defy it's purpose.
also looking at cupra formentor & seat leon which both has electric heatpump so all drives can be done EV. both fine vehicles but much more expensive if you want a decent level of kit, and even then the HS interior is still nicer. the actual drive is more or less on par, except for the heavy gear lag in HS EV mode.

Hi Jabo
yes its a minefield to work out exactly what you want from a car and what you are prepared to compromise on and cost of the car.
The MG , Cupra formentor ( plug in hybrid ) both get 32 miles on EV ( 52 km) and seat leon phev apparently 40 miles ,(64km) but a test I read said the max they got was 28 miles (45km).
If you do more range every day than the full range of the EV range ( irrespective of what car) , then a phev may not be your ideal car.
It will mean charging every time you get home , ready for the next day.
Here in the UK petrol is £1.25 a litre which is £5.63 a gallon.
I am on a night cheap rate for my electricity and it costs 71p to fully charge from 0 to 32 miles (52km)
So if I try to find out how much that is per gallon , here in the UK it ( £5.63 / .71) to see how many full charges I can get for the price of a gallon of petrol ,(7.9) then x 32 miles = 253 miles
So in theory just charging on electric and using it in EV mode is the equivalent of a car getting 253 miles per gallon. ( 1.11 l/100km)
Obviously once the EV runs out and ICE kicks in, then the miles per gallon ( l/100km) gets worse , and the greater the distance on ICE the worse this figure gets.
If you read some of the other threads you will see of how many miles per gallon I get on longer journeys , and I personally think for a big SUV the figures are acceptable, but you may not.
You may have to do a similar calculation yourself , to help you decide if a phev is the way to go.
If not, you may want to go full EV with all the different issues that may bring up .
Good luck in your decision

 

[JABO]

Any of those will fit the bill perfectly for me, as my daily total is almost never more than 40km, only on weekends where we often go 200km's. Electricity is no where as cheap here, i'm much closer to EV mode 40-50% cheaper than ICE, it's more the wish of driving in EV silence & environmental reasons. I'm not ready for full EV yet, due to the need for towing 1500kg's of camper now and then

 

[hermitdave]

Any of those will fit the bill perfectly for me, as my daily total is almost never more than 40km, only on weekends where we often go 200km's. Electricity is no where as cheap here, i'm much closer to EV mode 40-50% cheaper than ICE, it's more the wish of driving in EV silence & environmental reasons. I'm not ready for full EV yet, due to the need for towing 1500kg's of camper now and then

You could get a Model X

 

[JABO]

Great idea, probably the HS is around same price as first downpayment on the model x

 

[Moog42]

As we have a LEAF too, I would note that in winter I have seen the LEAF pull 20 miles of range to power the heater, which on a PHEV would make it pretty much useless... preheat is good though IF, and it's a big IF, you can get the app to work as it was very flaky.

 

[hermitdave]

As we have a LEAF too, I would note that in winter I have seen the LEAF pull 20 miles of range to power the heater, which on a PHEV would make it pretty much useless... preheat is good though IF, and it's a big IF, you can get the app to work as it was very flaky.

I used to use climate timer until I did CarPlay update. It wasn’t too bad this winter

 

[hermitdave]

being using heating did last 2 days and it isn’t good enough - direct clear the windscreen well. anyone installed block heater yet? Getting tempted

 

[JABO]

being using heating did last 2 days and it isn’t good enough - direct clear the windscreen well. anyone installed block heater yet? Getting tempted

The webasto installer refuses to install in my car, as there's no installation manual from webasto or MG yet. for now i bought an electric 2kw flow heater on aliexpress to install in the coolant hoses in the engine compartment. Haven't installed it yet......

 

[busa]

Did he say why he wouldn't install?
Seems a lot of trouble.
I take it it heats the coolant in the ICE, If so how is the coolant pumped around to get to the heater matrix?
If you fit it into the existing coolant system of the ICE does that invalidate the warranty?
Or have I got this totally wrong?
I fitted a heating system to heat cooking oil when I had a disco, the coolant was diverted around the cooking oil, to preheat it, so as to thin the cooking oil, It also had an electric preheat chamber to use first thing.