EV Battery information plain and simple.

[Les burrows]

Plain straight forward advice on EV Batteries from Ginny and electrifying

 

[Rolfe]

She hasn't said anything about the difference between LFP and NMC batteries. She's talking as if they're all the same. And she hasn't said anything about the balance charge either.

 

[Les burrows]

Hi again Rolfe of course you right but as I entitled the post plain and simple, but I think the video was addressing the vast majority of EV batteries MNC, there are not a great deal as yet using LFP but yes they are appearing.
I see your concerns as I know you have that LFP battery in your car as my wife does in hers we went for that because it is all that was needed with less concern about when are to what level you charge or it.
So I have placed a comment on the video on YT to express the disappointment of no mention being made to different chemistries or balancing to maintain a good state of health and longevity of the batteries in EV and suggested perhaps they need to go a little further in a future video.
For some reason I was unable to copy and paste what I have written so I have taken a screenshot but you can see all the comments on YT if you would like to.
Les

 

[Gomev]

There's a lot more LFP out there than possibly many think. Apart from the MG cars, all the lower range Tesla model 3 and Model Ys use LFP. Hyundai are starting to use it and also Ford, no doubt others too.

courtesy What Kind of EV Battery Is in My Tesla?

 

[Les burrows]

Very true I have placed a comment about this on the YouTube video we here know this is happening but many have no idea. I’m sure more will come as they are cheaper, easier to manufacture and maintain also last much longer time will tell on that one.
Les

 

[Gadget Geek]

There are also sodium and solid batteries entering the market, so the advice may change again.

 

[Robf]

For me one of the most important aspects is the pace of change. My 2015 Zoe had a 22kw battery with range of about 80 miles on a good day. Now battery cars are 70 odd kw with range over 300 miles. Extrapolate that and in a few years we will be seeing expectations of 500+ miles as standard. Factor in all the technological changes (sodium, dry etc) and it will overtake ICE. Charging rates are also at levels unheard of in 2015. Thanks Tesla .

 

[Rolfe]

Good comment, Les.

Something that just crystallised for me the other day was the variation in suitability of batteries between home charging and those who don't have home charging.

I like my LFP battery because it isn't so fussy as the NMC. I can just charge it to 100% when I feel like it (usually about once a week, or on coming back from a longer run) and it doesn't matter if I leave it at 100% for a day or two. I don't like leaving the car sitting at a low SoC in case I suddenly need to go somewhere. Of course one could do the same with the NMC with the app set to charge to 80%, but then there's all the remembering to take it to 100% once a month, immediately before you have a journey planned that will take it down to 80% again.

The LFP battery really likes to balance. Every single time I take it to 100%, it spends half an hour puttering around at 20 watts before deciding it's done. It did it on five consecutive days, once. Realising this, what I don't do is to charge it up to less than 100% and stop the charge (say on a rapid charger) and just start driving it again, unless I'm on a long journey of course. Normally, I'll drive it until I decide to charge, then go all the way to 100% and balance - either all the way on the granny charger, or 55 minutes on the rapid, then straight to the garage and finish off on the granny. This works perfectly when you're charging at home.

But what about someone who is relying on public charging? If they have a handy type 2 within walking distance that they can stay on as long as they like then they can do the same as I do, no problem. But many people don't have that, and are mainly charging on rapid chargers. The NMC battery will cope with this quite happily, up to 80% and down again as often as necessary, and only wants to be taken to 100% on an AC charger once a month. So just once a month you need to find a type 2 to sit on for a while, or borrow somebody's wall box, or even find somewhere you can plug in your granny charger.

Also, the NMC battery charges quite a lot faster on an ultra-rapid charger. That's not so important if most of your charging is done while you're watching TV or asleep, but it is important for someone whose day-to-day charging is mostly on rapids.

The LFP wouldn't like this nearly so much. I think the problem someone arrived here with, an LFP battery reporting wildly improbably range figures, was because it had been treated like that. (The car was second-hand.) I think people planning on doing most of their regular charging on public rapid chargers should be firmly steered towards the NMC battery or they might regret it.

 

[GaryMG4]

She hasn't said anything about the difference between LFP and NMC batteries. She's talking as if they're all the same. And she hasn't said anything about the balance charge either.

I think the main thing was that it was a product placement video for the eC4. It was sponsored by Citroen and as such didn't mention anything that wasn't Citroen, so it ended up only brushing the surface.

 

[Rolfe]

I think the main thing was that it was a product placement video for the eC4. It was sponsored by Citroen and as such didn't mention anything that wasn't Citroen, so it ended up only brushing the surface.

Ah, that would explain it.

 

[Rolfe]

A related point came up in the first reply to the guy with the misbehaving SR battery. The first reply to him asserted that the battery had probably been damaged by being taken up to 100% too often, and that this wasn't good. The person who posted that clearly hadn't understood that the OP had been referring to an LFP battery, even though the SR was specified. So the OP was given precisely the wrong advice, because the person replying just thought all batteries should be treated like the NMC.

Why would treating an LFP battery exactly the way MG tells us to treat it (take it up to 100% as often as you like, and by the way we don't even give you the functionality in the app to do anything else) be the cause of a damaged battery? The car was only a year old and only on 8,000 miles.

In fact, discussing the issue further, the likely cause seemed to be the opposite. That the battery had been used as if it was an NMC, and seldom (if ever) taken to 100% and allowed to balance. As a result its GOM was a lot more guess-work than usual and its range reporting was wildly out. Once the owner had let the thing balance at 100% a few times the problem ironed itself out (although he rejected the car for other reasons).

It's important to distinguish between battery types, because the advice is very far from one size fits all.

 

[slmorgan42]

Good comment, Les.

Something that just crystallised for me the other day was the variation in suitability of batteries between home charging and those who don't have home charging.

I like my LFP battery because it isn't so fussy as the NMC. I can just charge it to 100% when I feel like it (usually about once a week, or on coming back from a longer run) and it doesn't matter if I leave it at 100% for a day or two. I don't like leaving the car sitting at a low SoC in case I suddenly need to go somewhere. Of course one could do the same with the NMC with the app set to charge to 80%, but then there's all the remembering to take it to 100% once a month, immediately before you have a journey planned that will take it down to 80% again.

The LFP battery really likes to balance. Every single time I take it to 100%, it spends half an hour puttering around at 20 watts before deciding it's done. It did it on five consecutive days, once. Realising this, what I don't do is to charge it up to less than 100% and stop the charge (say on a rapid charger) and just start driving it again, unless I'm on a long journey of course. Normally, I'll drive it until I decide to charge, then go all the way to 100% and balance - either all the way on the granny charger, or 55 minutes on the rapid, then straight to the garage and finish off on the granny. This works perfectly when you're charging at home.

But what about someone who is relying on public charging? If they have a handy type 2 within walking distance that they can stay on as long as they like then they can do the same as I do, no problem. But many people don't have that, and are mainly charging on rapid chargers. The NMC battery will cope with this quite happily, up to 80% and down again as often as necessary, and only wants to be taken to 100% on an AC charger once a month. So just once a month you need to find a type 2 to sit on for a while, or borrow somebody's wall box, or even find somewhere you can plug in your granny charger.

Also, the NMC battery charges quite a lot faster on an ultra-rapid charger. That's not so important if most of your charging is done while you're watching TV or asleep, but it is important for someone whose day-to-day charging is mostly on rapids.

The LFP wouldn't like this nearly so much. I think the problem someone arrived here with, an LFP battery reporting wildly improbably range figures, was because it had been treated like that. (The car was second-hand.) I think people planning on doing most of their regular charging on public rapid chargers should be firmly steered towards the NMC battery or they might regret it.

Good points here.

I am one of those people living in a London flat who cannot have a home charger. On a weekly basis I do not do many miles and keep the battery between 50 and 80%. I normally do a charge to 80% at the end of the week in prep for the weekend when I use the the car the most.

I have quite a few chargers within walking distance. Lamppost ~3-5kwh and a 22kwh which the MG5 will max out at ~11kwh.

The lamppost is my normal go to as it is a little cheaper. They are also trying to encourage overnight charging at the moment with a cheaper rate from 00:00 - 07:00. Basically it works like a home charger. I connect the car up anytime after 16:00 and the charge will start at 00:00.

I probably do a long trip once every month or two so use this schedule to charge 100%. This should mean the car is balancing during this charge.

My rapid charge usage is kept quite low as do not do enough long trips to need one.

 

[Rolfe]

I think if you have an AC charger within walking distance that you can leave your car on overnight, you are really in the same logistics position of someone with home charging, even though it might cost a bit more. Some people don't have that facility though, and rely mainly on rapid chargers where they can either wait (maybe have a coffee) or do a bit of shopping. The faster charging of the NMCs and the lack of any need to take the car to 100% and balance more often than once a month would be pretty major plus points in that situation.

 

[Les burrows]

Simorgan42
You wrote in # 12
Lamppost ~3-5kwh and a 22kwh which the MG5 will max out at ~11kwh.
Well you are not the first to say The MG5 can charge at 11kw well in the UK it can not it is 6.6kw max on AC currant even though you say you have a 22kw charging point the car is limited to 6.6 In the UK but annoyingly we do 11kw in Europe and that applies to all models. I must say that I was please to read your post about lamp post charging in London I have family in Amersham not to far away and there is 4 of these street lamp type chargers never yet have I been able to use one always Iced. Very very annoying but nothing you can do about it so the councils in that part of the world do appear to be trying to provide on street charging but the Ice brigade are apparently doing they best to stop it putting lines on the road and writing EV charging bay must translate to Chelsea tractor spot I think.in that part of the world.
Les

 

[Rolfe]

Longer cable?

 

[slmorgan42]

Simorgan42
You wrote in # 12
Lamppost ~3-5kwh and a 22kwh which the MG5 will max out at ~11kwh.
Well you are not the first to say The MG5 can charge at 11kw well in the UK it can not it is 6.6kw max on AC currant even though you say you have a 22kw charging point the car is limited to 6.6 In the UK but annoyingly we do 11kw in Europe and that applies to all models. I must say that I was please to read your post about lamp post charging in London I have family in Amersham not to far away and there is 4 of these street lamp type chargers never yet have I been able to use one always Iced. Very very annoying but nothing you can do about it so the councils in that part of the world do appear to be trying to provide on street charging but the Ice brigade are apparently doing they best to stop it putting lines on the road and writing EV charging bay must translate to Chelsea tractor spot I think.in that part of the world.
Les

Hey Les

Sorry I should have tagged UK Facelift LR in my post. This model has an 11kwh AC onboard charger. As long as the have the right cable (not the MG one) you will get close to this. In my experience the average I get is actually 9.69. Its funny it looks like I am being very specific but it just loves sitting at this exact number.

I am lucky I live in Hackney and the council is doing a massive push for more public chargers. The 22kwh are all tagged as EV only.

Sadly most of the Lamppost ones are not marked as EV only. But that said I have seen more of these now being marked up. My main go to never as an ICE in it since they did this.

 

[slmorgan42]

Hey Les

Sorry I should have tagged UK Facelift LR in my post. This model has an 11kwh AC onboard charger. As long as the have the right cable (not the MG one) you will get close to this. In my experience the average I get is actually 9.69. Its funny it looks like I am being very specific but it just loves sitting at this exact number.

I am lucky I live in Hackney and the council is doing a massive push for more public chargers. The 22kwh are all tagged as EV only.

Sadly most of the Lamppost ones are not marked as EV only. But that said I have seen more of these now being marked up. My main go to never as an ICE in it since they did this.

Managed to find an example app screenshot.

 

[Les burrows]

Hey Les

Sorry I should have tagged UK Facelift LR in my post. This model has an 11kwh AC onboard charger. As long as the have the right cable (not the MG one) you will get close to this. In my experience the average I get is actually 9.69. Its funny it looks like I am being very specific but it just loves sitting at this exact number.

I am lucky I live in Hackney and the council is doing a massive push for more public chargers. The 22kwh are all tagged as EV only.

Sadly most of the Lamppost ones are not marked as EV only. But that said I have seen more of these now being marked up. My main go to never as an ICE in it since they did this.

Well simorgan42 all I can say is you must have a European 11kw inverter fitted to your car i to have a face lifted MG5 trophy also but it as only got three pins in the plug connected you say with the right cable so the only one I can think off is a 3 phase cable with as all the pins connected and a socket in the car to match so it appears you are very lucky to have your set up but good luck with it, and thank you for the extra information about the charging in London I know they are all over the place there as apart from family in Amersham which I mentioned before my son lives in Lee quite close to Blackheath but he drive a Tesla model Y so we won’t go there Tesla don’t appear to any problems any where hes got it made can charge at home or at work free of charge do I sound jealous we’ll I am but good luck to him.he deserves it.
Les

 

[slmorgan42]

Well simorgan42 all I can say is you must have a European 11kw inverter fitted to your car i to have a face lifted MG5 trophy also but it as only got three pins in the plug connected you say with the right cable so the only one I can think off is a 3 phase cable with as all the pins connected and a socket in the car to match so it appears you are very lucky to have your set up but good luck with it, and thank you for the extra information about the charging in London I know they are all over the place there as apart from family in Amersham which I mentioned before my son lives in Lee quite close to Blackheath but he drive a Tesla model Y so we won’t go there Tesla don’t appear to any problems any where hes got it made can charge at home or at work free of charge do I sound jealous we’ll I am but good luck to him.he deserves it.
Les

Yeah London is good.

Some other area are catching up.

My kids live in Blackheath and there are quite a good few chargers in the area. There is a Sainsbury and MS on bugsby way which still has free charging. Also a nice row of BP Rapid chargers with covers.

I am happy if I was lucky but there are quite a lot of people on here and a Facebook group with UK FL MG5 with 11kwh onboard chargers.

The manual in the app which claims to be the UK version also talks about 11kwh. See pics.

I thought I had a picture of my charge port but I will take one tomorrow when it is not pissing it down with rain lol.

I do really think it is a matter of the right cable. As I say my MG cable was not right and only when I changed it did I get the higher speed. Let’s see if the charge port photo sheds any light on this.

 

[Les burrows]

Wow many thanks I am sure mine hasn’t but like you I will double check tomorrow also pissing it down here also, but I am always open to learning.
So that’s 3 things we have in common then kids who live around the same area plus MG5 trophy facelifted model and it’s pissing it down LOL.
Yeh I know Bugsy way very well and have plug in there many times on a free podpoint near Primark.

Looking at your screen shots you’re correct it does state 3phase charging is possible maybe I’ve been sold a pup.
Screen shot of Uk spec sheet that I have
But you know what this is going down the same vein as the other MG cars you see when the face lifted 5 first came out Pat in France of pats tech & wheels he did some testing on it for us and a podcast a few times and he said his car in France came with the 11kw charger but Miles Robert’s was certain the the UK would not have that and he like me would have seen the specs sheets for the UK version and he was quite right it says single phase 7kw which is in fact 6.6kw so why did I say the same vein well my wife’s MG4 SE should not have the tinted windows but it does in the first batch of MG4 the SE had the wrong glass fitted and there where a few other things also that was not right San me with the ZS models they where not quite not what the spec sheets said so you are very probably right about your car
Les