"80% is Enough" on a Rapid Charge Campaign!!!

[Dave S]

This is the start of my campaign to raise awareness amongst EV drivers to be more considerate and only charge to 80% whilst taking on a Rapid Charge (CCS or Chademo).

It's been mentioned on the podcasts before that the charging rate drops significantly after 80% charge approximately in order to protect your battery. So keeping your car on the Rapid charge is only hogging the fastest method of charging, and other EV users may well need a rapid charge as they travel on. If you did want to fill to 100% you might as well transfer on to a fast charger (Type 2), because that's pretty much the same rate of charge as the Rapid Charge beyond 80% .

So, I'm asking everyone to help me us out and spread the word. It's just rude and unthoughtful, and may be causing other similar road users some unnecessary inconvenience!!

I know that my campaign isn't exactly going to take away a great deal of attention from the likes of Greta Thunberg. I don't know how to publicise it more but it would surely be easy enough for the Charge Point Provider to have an information notice on the charger or or RFID providers to have similar on their cards or app?

Rant over!

 

[Iain]

Great idea Dave but methinks consideration for others is becoming a thing of the past.
That doesn’t mean we should stop trying.

 

[Cocijo]

Why don’t rapid charger network owners just limit them to say 85%? - job done.

 

[kiltox]

Latest BMS on the ZS doesn’t tail off until closer to 90%.

Audi eTron will pull 50kW from a 50kW charger until 95%.

 

[Maciej]

I think the wrong problem is being addressed here. Issue isn't that people charge to above 80% but that there isn't enough chargers. EVs need to be convenient to use. Noone wants to run outside the restaurant half way eating their dinner to move a car off the charger. This isn't practical. Much better campaign would be to get more chargers and more reliable networks.

 

[Jomarkh]

How low a charge would you need to start on the get to 90% in the time it takes to order and eat a meal in a restaurant?
At 80% the charger should be able to send a text and at 90% the charger could set off the car alarm and flashing lights

 

[Frank]

If people want to charge to 100% if they need it, or want it, then why not. The only consideration should be common decency. If when starting your charge there is already people waiting then only take what you need to complete your journey ( and by that I mean to home, i.e. you might only need a 10 mins top up) if travelling elsewhere then stop at 80% to let others use the charger.

What should become common practice is to leave your contact phone number on your car in case you have not been monitoring your charging in a diligent manner and are sat there with a full charge and unnecessarily denying access to the charger.

Frank

 

[macd2401]

I don't generally leave my car when I'm on a rapid, unless I'm relatively nearby, or there's multiple chargers available. If I'm charging above 80%, it's generally when I'm the only one there.

 

[biffo]

I’m not sure I’ll have my home charger installed by the time I get my car - there are a couple of free (no cost and very rarely used) 50kW and 22kW chargers about 10 minutes walk away at train station (Covid has stopped commuting I guess).

I’d planned to pop on the 50kW and collect it an hour+ later. Now I’m worried that the car might not start if it gets above 90%.

Would I need to take off the 50kW and pop on the 22kW if I need 100% for a long journey? That sounds like a pain (unless someone wanted the 50kW).

 

[5teep]

I’m not sure I’ll have my home charger installed by the time I get my car - there are a couple of free (no cost and very rarely used) 50kW and 22kW chargers about 10 minutes walk away at train station (Covid has stopped commuting I guess).

I’d planned to pop on the 50kW and collect it an hour+ later. Now I’m worried that the car might not start if it gets above 90%.

Would I need to take off the 50kW and pop on the 22kW if I need 100% for a long journey? That sounds like a pain (unless someone wanted the 50kW).

How often are you likely to make such long journies where you cannot afford to stop for 20 minutes to top up?

I do ~1000 miles a week in my mg5 and have no issues. You simply plan your route to coincide with a charger.

 

[biffo]

How often are you likely to make such long journies where you cannot afford to stop for 20 minutes to top up?

I do ~1000 miles a week in my mg5 and have no issues. You simply plan your route to coincide with a charger.

Rarely, but I don’t think using a rapid to 100% should be as problematic as it seems to be from a technical perspective.

I agree with the points about considerate usage, but if available & no one needs access, then using to 100% shouldn’t be the issue it seems to be.

Hopefully the reason behind failures will be resolved

 

[5teep]

Yeah, the disconnect is annoying but in reality you'd not be charging much past 80% anyway as it slows down so much and takes so long for relatively little gain in range.

 

[biffo]

Yeah, the disconnect is annoying but in reality you'd not be charging much past 80% anyway as it slows down so much and takes so long for relatively little gain in range.

Yeah, but slower than swapping to a 7kW? I don’t think above 80% is a common thing that EV drivers need to do. This is a bit of an edge case - I’m coming at it from the perspective of what would make widespread adoption easier (other than loads and loads of multi-unit charging stations everywhere).

Maybe allowable charge should be dictated by who else is waiting? Some modern interpretation of the old supermarket Deli Counter ticketing system. At least until you can be assured that there will be a working, available chargers at your stop if off the main routes.

 

[Cocijo]

To really enforce it if needed the cost per kwhr could be significantly increased above 80% - there are also already waiting/standing charge penalties in place from some providers. The reason it slows down is due to increased resistance in the battery pack - forcing higher rate charging at a high state of charge can significantly stress the batteries. One of the big issues with MG in UK and elsewhere is the lack of an app with the functionality amongst other things to set a charge % and notify the owner.

 

[biffo]

To really enforce it if needed the cost per kwhr could be significantly increased above 80% - there are also already waiting/standing charge penalties in place from some providers. The reason it slows down is due to increased resistance in the battery pack - forcing higher rate charging at a high state of charge can significantly stress the batteries. One of the big issues with MG in UK and elsewhere is the lack of an app with the functionality amongst other things to set a charge % and notify the owner.

Dynamic pricing above 80% did occur to me and might be a fair idea, but how soon before that’s applied based on time of day and how busy a unit is?

I’m in agreement with the principle of this thread though, etiquette only works so long as the majority are likeminded and follow the ‘rules’ - see how that works regarding disabled parking spaces being misused or chargers being ICE’d. What’s going to be needed is legislation and enforcement - perhaps an adaptation of the ANPR systems used effectively in car parks?

 

[Musicman]

I had an unexpected trip to York yesterday evening and the car was sitting on the drive with only 43% charge. So I called at my local InstsVolt rapid charger at teatime, before the trip, and within half an hour had increased the car's charge 83% (we have an MG5ev). That was enough to get me there and back with no issues. Arrived home with 10% charge after a round trip of 150 miles (mosly A1/A64). The car had 3 hours last night on the Zappi at the cheap rate. There can surely be no cheaper way to make the journey!

 

[Cocijo]

Dynamic pricing above 80% did occur to me and might be a fair idea, but how soon before that’s applied based on time of day and how busy a unit is?

I’m in agreement with the principle of this thread though, etiquette only works so long as the majority are likeminded and follow the ‘rules’ - see how that works regarding disabled parking spaces being misused or chargers being ICE’d. What’s going to be needed is legislation and enforcement - perhaps an adaptation of the ANPR systems used effectively in car parks?

I think there is also the issue for some on a journey who have range anxiety. With the current poor infrastructure and lots of faulty chargers, when they get a chance they want to get as much as they can in case they can‘t get to another one. It may be slightly irrational and planning helps, but it is a consideration.

 

[Dave S]

I’m not sure I’ll have my home charger installed by the time I get my car - there are a couple of free (no cost and very rarely used) 50kW and 22kW chargers about 10 minutes walk away at train station (Covid has stopped commuting I guess).

I’d planned to pop on the 50kW and collect it an hour+ later. Now I’m worried that the car might not start if it gets above 90%.

Would I need to take off the 50kW and pop on the 22kW if I need 100% for a long journey? That sounds like a pain (unless someone wanted the 50kW).

Hi Biffo,

No, you should be OK. If you charge your car to 100%, that's fine. There is a strong belief that it's not good for the long-term life of your battery to leave it sitting on much more than an 80-85% charge. Similar to you, I use my car every day almost and many days I'm doing 200+miles so leave with a full charge and have to take on a roadside charge too.

The other thing which is almost contradictory, is that it good to leave your car on 100%+ charge from time to time to allow the battery to "balance". That balancing session can take 3-5 hours, but gives the battery the opportunity to ensure that all the cells are holding the same amount of charge.

When I was away in Perth a few weeks ago, I only had access to a public 7 Kw "fast" charger, and I chose to leave the car on there overnight, as the charge would take about 3-4 hours and the balancing about 5, so I was actively using the charger. Also there were many more about so I wasn't hogging a limited resource!

I hope that helps, but as I've said before in many posts "I'm no expert". I've just had to learn by experience and taking on advice too.

 

[biffo]

I think there is also the issue for some on a journey who have range anxiety. With the current poor infrastructure and lots of faulty chargers, when they get a chance they want to get as much as they can in case they can‘t get to another one. It may be slightly irrational and planning helps, but it is a consideration.

There was an recent video from Electric Vehicle Man where he was talking about Charger Anxiety being the new Range Anxiety

 

[Cocijo]

There are quite a few members on here who like to keep their cars fully charged all of the time - whenever they can - just in case… this is a behaviour carried over from ICE and also as a result of the time it might take to charge should you be ‘caught out’ and need to go a distance urgently, compared to a quick ICE fill up.