Europe scraps 2035 new ICE car sales ban

The biggest problem is that the oil industry makes around $3 billion profit every single day. They are not readily going to give that up, and like the National Rifle Association in America, they can buy the influence of governments. Apparently at COP (out) 30 in Brazil, there were 1,800 oil lobbyist trying to influence the conference attendees.

We already have renewable energy technology which is cheaper to build and to run than conventional power plants, and the prices continue to fall.

However, certain world leaders are funded by the oil industries and want to drill, drill, drill, and certain dictators rely on it to fund their invasion of their neighbours.
 
The biggest problem is that the oil industry makes around $3 billion profit every single day. They are not readily going to give that up, and like the National Rifle Association in America, they can buy the influence of governments. Apparently at COP (out) 30 in Brazil, there were 1,800 oil lobbyist trying to influence the conference attendees.

We already have renewable energy technology which is cheaper to build and to run than conventional power plants, and the prices continue to fall.

However, certain world leaders are funded by the oil industries and want to drill, drill, drill, and certain dictators rely on it to fund their invasion of their neighbours.
Unfortunately there are worse things going on in the world than climate change and if they don't get sorted out first it won't matter what the climate does
 
The biggest problem is that the oil industry makes around $3 billion profit every single day. They are not readily going to give that up, and like the National Rifle Association in America, they can buy the influence of governments. Apparently at COP (out) 30 in Brazil, there were 1,800 oil lobbyist trying to influence the conference attendees.
The whole COP charade is obnoxious and needs to be stopped, it is sending completely the wrong message.
We already have renewable energy technology which is cheaper to build and to run than conventional power plants, and the prices continue to fall.
It isn't cheaper - you are ignoring the intermittent nature of renewables. And also ignoring how much we pay to STOP the wind turbines turning and solar panels generating when there's too much for the grid. And the price of all the grid upgrades (which are increasingly part of people's energy bills) as are subsidies for green energy (some of which were shifted to general taxation at the last budget).

Renewables require either a storage technology or conventional backup power. Pumped storage is very expensive and slow to create and Battery storage is prohibitively expensive at the scale needed. Conventional gas plants are the cheapest option but also one of the most polluting and far from free. Biomass is largely a ridiculous technology that is fatally compromised by its huge land take for fuel or the huge distances pellets etc.. are shipped around the world.

Yes, grid upgrades are going to help a bit over the next 10 years and interconnectors with other countries allow some opportunities to spread and share loads. But they also compromise energy independence and security, especially with so much Russian cable-cutting activity and partner countries who in a crisis may just look after their own.

We all know renewables are not cheaper because we only have to look to our own energy bills. If they were cheaper, given how much they now contribute, we'd be paying a lot less than the old days, but we are paying much much more!
However, certain world leaders are funded by the oil industries and want to drill, drill, drill, and certain dictators rely on it to fund their invasion of their neighbours.
All true, but there's a huge lobby and money behind renewables too and a lot of people relying on them to lend a positive green image to their brands.

All energy sources have always been subsidised. Though I agree the levels of support have varied.

Look, I agree with you that there are powerful vested interests at play. I see them operating on both sides with consumers and businesses getting caught in the fight in the middle.
 
Fully agree the UK should follow the EU on this.
From a freedom perspective, it makes sense not to mandate the transition.

If the government wants to increase EV uptake, it would do much better to align conflicting incentives so that:
  • It is always cheaper to buy an EV (vs. equivalent ICE/hybrid).
  • It is always cheaper to run an EV (vs. ditto), regardless of whether you have home charging or not.
That's all it needs.
 
From a freedom perspective, it makes sense not to mandate the transition.

If the government wants to increase EV uptake, it would do much better to align conflicting incentives so that:
  • It is always cheaper to buy an EV (vs. equivalent ICE/hybrid).
  • It is always cheaper to run an EV (vs. ditto), regardless of whether you have home charging or not.
That's all it needs.

Agree. Instead of doing the total opposite. And making it less attractive for folk to buy, EVs. Which they seem, intent on doing. 🤷‍♂️ 🙄🤪
 
The whole COP charade is obnoxious and needs to be stopped, it is sending completely the wrong message.

It isn't cheaper - you are ignoring the intermittent nature of renewables. And also ignoring how much we pay to STOP the wind turbines turning and solar panels generating when there's too much for the grid. And the price of all the grid upgrades (which are increasingly part of people's energy bills) as are subsidies for green energy (some of which were shifted to general taxation at the last budget).

Renewables require either a storage technology or conventional backup power. Pumped storage is very expensive and slow to create and Battery storage is prohibitively expensive at the scale needed. Conventional gas plants are the cheapest option but also one of the most polluting and far from free. Biomass is largely a ridiculous technology that is fatally compromised by its huge land take for fuel or the huge distances pellets etc.. are shipped around the world.

Yes, grid upgrades are going to help a bit over the next 10 years and interconnectors with other countries allow some opportunities to spread and share loads. But they also compromise energy independence and security, especially with so much Russian cable-cutting activity and partner countries who in a crisis may just look after their own.

We all know renewables are not cheaper because we only have to look to our own energy bills. If they were cheaper, given how much they now contribute, we'd be paying a lot less than the old days, but we are paying much much more!

All true, but there's a huge lobby and money behind renewables too and a lot of people relying on them to lend a positive green image to their brands.

All energy sources have always been subsidised. Though I agree the levels of support have varied.

Look, I agree with you that there are powerful vested interests at play. I see them operating on both sides with consumers and businesses getting caught in the fight in the middle.
There's a lot to unpack there, and on some of it you are mistaken.

I am not ignoring the intermitency, energy storage is a lot cheaper than continually having to buy more oil, gas and coal, and it is getting a lot cheaper.

You are forgetting the enormous cost of commissioning a new power station and Hinkley Point C costs continue to rise and it still isn't running yet. Then, after it is closed down after 30 years, it costs billions more to decommission it.

As for your energy bills, I thought everyone knew now that the cost of electricity is dictated by the price of gas. even if it's the smallest percentage of the energy mix on a given day. Politicians are lobbying for this to change to get people out of energy poverty.

People in the energy industry are now looking at decentralised local grids with house batteries and V2G support.
 
There's a lot to unpack there, and on some of it you are mistaken.

I am not ignoring the intermitency, energy storage is a lot cheaper than continually having to buy more oil, gas and coal, and it is getting a lot cheaper.

You are forgetting the enormous cost of commissioning a new power station and Hinkley Point C costs continue to rise and it still isn't running yet. Then, after it is closed down after 30 years, it costs billions more to decommission it.
I didn't actually mention nuclear, but was comparing principally against gas backed with storage.

I don't agree that storage is cheaper: where do you get that from? In practice storage is impractical at the scale we need it today, let alone with the increasing share of renewables. That will hopefully change with time, but is likely to take a lot longer than the pace we are trying to go at.

You are right about the cost of conventional nuclear. It remains to be seen if the SMR (small modular reactor) concepts work out or not (from a cost perspective - they are clearly technically possible, but may not deliver the claimed benefits).
As for your energy bills, I thought everyone knew now that the cost of electricity is dictated by the price of gas. even if it's the smallest percentage of the energy mix on a given day. Politicians are lobbying for this to change to get people out of energy poverty.
Yes, because of the need for gas-powered backup (which is the only practical solution we have now that coal is banned - given the impracticality of biomass)! If we won't pay what is needed for gas backup, nobody will provide it and then the lights go out.

This is actually really hard to change because if you think about it: whatever the most expensive technology you have to have in your energy mix will set the minimum price, or you won't have it.

It is also worth pointing out that wholesale energy costs (driven principally by gas, as you say), only make up about 40-45% of the price people pay, the rest are levies, network costs, taxes and policies which are the reason that we pay the highest prices in the world for our energy.

One day batteries might be cheap enough that we could have massive-scale storage and store perhaps 3-4 days energy needs for times of low windspeed in winter sun. But right now it would cost many orders of magnitude more than our GDP!

Please tell me what other form of storage technology is:
  • Possible at the required scale.
  • Cheap enough.
  • Ready to go now (or at least in the next few years).
People in the energy industry are now looking at decentralised local grids with house batteries and V2G support.
That's definitely worth a try. For those that can afford it.

It is (just) possible that local backup is the answer if:
  • Prices can be made low enough.
  • The 30+ million existing homes and 6+ million existing businesses can be retrofitted.

But that is going to take decades.

I fear the only really practical route forward is to:
  • Stretch the transition out over a much longer period of time.
  • Use the savings to cut bills in the meantime.
  • Invest in novel forms of storage and many experiments.
 

This is just battery storage. There is also 2TWh compressed air storage in Cheshire and a number of liquid air storage sites in development. There won't be one solution, which is a good thing because we don't want all our eggs in one basket.

Unfortunately, we are all eggs in the basket called Earth.

It will take decades, and there will be numerous changes of government over that time, and it's human nature that if the threat isn't right in front of us, we'll ignore it.
 
Yes, lots of promising things in there, just not at the scale needed (yet). Total UK energy use is around 3-4TWh per day, up for debate how long we need to be able to go to guarantee no power cuts.

I agree compressed air looks promising - but I don't believe we have anything like 2TWh running today, I presume that is future potential? The numbers I have seen are much smaller.
"how much we pay to STOP the wind turbines turning"

Surely that's easily done by feathering the rotor blades?
We pay them to compensate for the time they are not generating. Over £1bn in 2024 to wind farms alone.
 
It will take decades, and there will be numerous changes of government over that time, and it's human nature that if the threat isn't right in front of us, we'll ignore it.
Which brings us full circle to the title of this post;

Someone in authority in the EU can't see the danger, and has probably been lobbied by the oil industry.

What was it Fraser used to say in Dad's Army? :)
 
Yes, lots of promising things in there, just not at the scale needed (yet). Total UK energy use is around 3-4TWh per day, up for debate how long we need to be able to go to guarantee no power cuts.

I agree compressed air looks promising - but I don't believe we have anything like 2TWh running today, I presume that is future potential? The numbers I have seen are much smaller.

We pay them to compensate for the time they are not generating. Over £1bn in 2024 to wind farms alone.
No, the salt cavern in Cheshire has 2TWh capacity at this time. 27TWh is in development.

Edit: My bad. 2TWh is the projected capacity.

A 300MWh liquid air plant is under construction in Manchester.
 
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