This was interesting. Possible route to rejuvenating lithium batteries

[Fluffykins]

Saw this on Scientific American. (archive.ph link gets past paywall)

https://archive.ph/GDSR6

"An LFP battery that powers an EV can typically be charged and then discharged about 2,000 times before it is considered “dead” (when its capacity is below the 80 percent mark). By adding the electrolyte whenever the battery neared that threshold, the team was able to restore most of the cell’s capacity each time—and it carried on working almost as well as a new battery. By the end of the experiment, the cell regained 96 percent capacity after nearly 12,000 charge-discharge cycles."

 

[Everest]

Hmmm... Interesting, but I'll take that with a pinch of sodium... I thought it is likely that calendar ageing will be more critical to LiFePO4 cells than cycle ageing?

2000 cycles at 200 miles per cycle is already 400,000 miles. Will an MG4 SE SR be worth fiddling with after it has done 400,000 miles?

Apart from @T1 Terry, will any of us drilling holes in our cells and adding an electrolyte?

 

[T1 Terry]

Saw this on Scientific American. (archive.ph link gets past paywall)

https://archive.ph/GDSR6

"An LFP battery that powers an EV can typically be charged and then discharged about 2,000 times before it is considered “dead” (when its capacity is below the 80 percent mark). By adding the electrolyte whenever the battery neared that threshold, the team was able to restore most of the cell’s capacity each time—and it carried on working almost as well as a new battery. By the end of the experiment, the cell regained 96 percent capacity after nearly 12,000 charge-discharge cycles."

Hmmm... Interesting, but I'll take that with a pinch of sodium... I thought it is likely that calendar ageing will be more critical to LiFePO4 cells than cycle ageing?

2000 cycles at 200 miles per cycle is already 400,000 miles. Will an MG4 SE SR be worth fiddling with after it has done 400,000 miles?

Apart from @T1 Terry, will any of us drilling holes in our cells and adding an electrolyte?

The hole drilling was for the NiMh modules the LFP cells have vent caps that can be removed and the electrolyte topped up ...... if you can actually get your hands on it and do the whole process @ 0*C or less, otherwise, the electrolyte boils away before you can get it in the cell and the safety valve back on.

The 2,000 cycles to 80% capacity must have involved charging to 4v and discharging to 2v each cycle .... or they were crap cells.

The Winston LYP cells we used for the off grid house battery systems are still returning 100% plus capacity tested at the 2 hr discharge rate the factory uses after 12 yrs of operation, so the shelf life or life calander life from production is not a factor in end of life, how they were treated is the thing that kills them.

I bought a Blade Electron from the second owner, he bought it direct from Ross Blade, the developer/builder business owner, and the 90Ah Thundersky LFP cells were 11 yrs old when I got it.
Did the memory clearing cycling charged, and they still had their full 100% capacity under the 2 hr load test (C2 or 0.5CA) (45 amps for 2 hrs =90ah) stopping when the cells dropped to 2.8v under load, they immediately bounced back up to better than 3v per cell once the load was removed, not sitting and waiting for the voltage to recover.
Those cells had been subjected to full EV loads for 11 yrs, but the BMS would cut the link is a vell went under 2.8v or over 3.6v, requiring a shut down reboot ....

Sadly, I lost those cells in the workshop fire, along with the LTO 55ah cells I was building an experimental Prius Gen 2 traction pack .....

T1 Terry

 

[MG Mile eater]

Hmmm... Interesting, but I'll take that with a pinch of sodium... I thought it is likely that calendar ageing will be more critical to LiFePO4 cells than cycle ageing?

2000 cycles at 200 miles per cycle is already 400,000 miles. Will an MG4 SE SR be worth fiddling with after it has done 400,000 miles?

Apart from @T1 Terry, will any of us drilling holes in our cells and adding an electrolyte?

Right do any of you lot own a 20 Yr old car ?? And still daily it chances is very little people will even own a vehicle with 400k on clock ( except me ) out people exchange there vehicles before it gets to 12yrs old 100-150k Most people lease.
Its not in the interest of car manufacturers to have batteries that last 300-500k miles ! They are in the money making only commercial application this would work great as of the higher milage and pay back

 

[Everest]

And still daily it chances is very little people will even own a vehicle with 400k on clock ( except me ) out people exchange there vehicles before it gets to 12yrs old 100-150k Most people lease.

Can anyone translate that sentence into English for me?

 

[MG Mile eater]

Can anyone translate that sentence into English for me?

Sorry rattling away

 

[MG Clive]

Sorry rattling away

We can tell you're a little excited to be here mate.

 

[MG Mile eater]

We can tell you're a little excited to be here mate.

Its interesting. Never get excited unless its pay day !!

 

[T1 Terry]

Right do any of you lot own a 20 Yr old car ?? And still daily it chances is very little people will even own a vehicle with 400k on clock ( except me ) out people exchange there vehicles before it gets to 12yrs old 100-150k Most people lease.
Its not in the interest of car manufacturers to have batteries that last 300-500k miles ! They are in the money making only commercial application this would work great as of the higher milage and pay back

I have a 15 yr old F model Jag just waiting for a shed so I can get it back on the road
25 yr old Merc waiting for the same thing and probably the EV drive line out of the Lexus 450h
A smashed up Lexus 450h guessing around the 2000 era

17 yr old Gen 2 Prius with 750,000 kms on the clock that was the daily driver until the end of last yr will probably be the donor now for the VW Kombi conversion

another Gen 2 Prius that is our daily driver now with 386,000 km on the clock

'74 VW Kombi with almost 1million kms on the clock, was a daily driver till I drove it through the flooded Murray River when it covered our road, water got in the front wheel brgs and the throttle cable tube ..... still drove end of last yr, but it's off the road now awaiting a shed so I can restore it and convert it to electric

A Blade Electron mk5 EV that needs batteries, they lasted over 11 yrs but they were lost in the workshop fire around 2010 era I believe

A Suzuki Jimny, 2007 ear I think, was to be the towed vehicle behind our '80's era Hino motorhome .... till the motorhome burnt to the ground in the workshop fire and the Jimny suffered body heat damage, have the parts, just need the workshop to put it back together.

A '70's era Mazda motorhome, gets used every so often ... waiting for a starter motor repair and workshop to patch the rusted sections .... more kms on the clock than I'd care to estimate, but at least 600,000

1980 Beford 36ft bus converted to a motorhome, probably close to 2 million kms on the thing, but fully rebuilt .... sadly, will never get completed now ...... 27 yrs since I started the conversion and restoration .... just had it too long and done too much work on it to just throw it away

Ford Cargo 1113 plant/car/container carrier truck, gets used a lot, I've put probably 100,000kms on it and it had a lot of kms on it before I got it. Bought it to move all the house a equipment 1600kms from where we lived to here, been so useful since it will stay as a permanent fixture ....

2002 Ford V10 6.8 ltr 31 ft Winnebago motorhome with 198,000km on the clock .... that will be over 200,000kms within a week or so, our house since our house over-looking the Murray River burnt to the ground, along with our Fuso Motorhome we bought to replace the Hino that was burnt in the workshop fire.

So, to answer your question ....... a few

T1 Terry

 

[Gomev]

I have a 15 yr old F model Jag just waiting for a shed so I can get it back on the road
25 yr old Merc waiting for the same thing and probably the EV drive line out of the Lexus 450h
A smashed up Lexus 450h guessing around the 2000 era

17 yr old Gen 2 Prius with 750,000 kms on the clock that was the daily driver until the end of last yr will probably be the donor now for the VW Kombi conversion

another Gen 2 Prius that is our daily driver now with 386,000 km on the clock

'74 VW Kombi with almost 1million kms on the clock, was a daily driver till I drove it through the flooded Murray River when it covered our road, water got in the front wheel brgs and the throttle cable tube ..... still drove end of last yr, but it's off the road now awaiting a shed so I can restore it and convert it to electric

A Blade Electron mk5 EV that needs batteries, they lasted over 11 yrs but they were lost in the workshop fire around 2010 era I believe

A Suzuki Jimny, 2007 ear I think, was to be the towed vehicle behind our '80's era Hino motorhome .... till the motorhome burnt to the ground in the workshop fire and the Jimny suffered body heat damage, have the parts, just need the workshop to put it back together.

A '70's era Mazda motorhome, gets used every so often ... waiting for a starter motor repair and workshop to patch the rusted sections .... more kms on the clock than I'd care to estimate, but at least 600,000

1980 Beford 36ft bus converted to a motorhome, probably close to 2 million kms on the thing, but fully rebuilt .... sadly, will never get completed now ...... 27 yrs since I started the conversion and restoration .... just had it too long and done too much work on it to just throw it away

Ford Cargo 1113 plant/car/container carrier truck, gets used a lot, I've put probably 100,000kms on it and it had a lot of kms on it before I got it. Bought it to move all the house a equipment 1600kms from where we lived to here, been so useful since it will stay as a permanent fixture ....

2002 Ford V10 6.8 ltr 31 ft Winnebago motorhome with 198,000km on the clock .... that will be over 200,000kms within a week or so, our house since our house over-looking the Murray River burnt to the ground, along with our Fuso Motorhome we bought to replace the Hino that was burnt in the workshop fire.

So, to answer your question ....... a few

T1 Terry

Do you own a scrap yard ?

 

[Everest]

Do you own a scrap yard ?

Depends if you ask Terry or his wife

 

[T1 Terry]

Depends if you ask Terry or his wife

Hmmmm... a little too close to the truth there and I left 3 vehicles out of the list I realised afterwards ..... Ex mechanic, did all the panel beating and spray painting night courses, after losing all my project stuff in the workshop fire ..... I needed to get something to take my mind off the dream workshop I'd lost ...... then I bought a motorhome the wife fell in love with ..... that eat near on 12 mths fixing, only for it to burn to the ground when the house burnt down ......

Now I've bought a 2002 Ford V10 motorhome that is taking every spare second of my remaining life to get ready to hit the road for a while, rather than the wife going insane living behind a hedge that has needed trimming for 2 yrs, so looks more like a forest, surrounded by my project cars ........
I did mention, more than once, if she built me a workshop I could hide the project fleet in there ....... not having a lot of luck on that one ......

T1 Terry