Will NACS win (eventually)?

I still have not forgiven Peter Purves, Valerie Singleton and John Noakes for introducing CDs and saying they would be indestructible lifelong discs for music and data storage, as a teenager I believed what they said. BBC ,Biddy Baxter, ruddy liars all of em! Still it gave me a good grounding for for when I became more politically aware.
 
Many have commented on the lack of 3 Phase support on the NACS connector but fail to say why and this impacts across Europe and many other countries which have not adopted the US Standards for power distribution. Fundementally we have 220-230 volts per phase and three-phase distribution staggers the phases 120 degrees apart (3x 120 = 360) this allows for Neutral (N) and Live 1 (L1) for single-phase at 220-230 volts and N + L1 + L2 + L3 for three-phase power. Because their 120 Degree phase shift between phases there are 415 Volts between phases. In the USA system, they have 2-Phase with 120 Volts on each Live (or Hot Wire as they often times call them) which are 180 Degrees apart so between Hot 1 and Hot 2 (L1 and L2 if you like) there are 240 Volts. Many domestic premises only have one Hot-wire and a Neutral which is also usually Grounded (ie. connected to Earth) but if they have a dryer or AC unit they will have both phases for 240 volts. Therefore many homes will have sockets for both voltages and to prevent inadvertent connection of a 110 v devise into a 240v socket the 240v plug and socket is a larger 4 pin affair.

SO NACS has 2 pins for the two hot wires and is therefore 240v AC but when connected to a DC Suprtcharger the DC +ve and -ve use the same two terminals and the car knows from the CP and PP pins in the plug whether it is being offered AC 240 V or DC 400 V before either is switched through to the vehicle and the appropriate HV Contactors close before the power is supplied. Elegant yes of course but if Tesla had been designed in a 3-phase country it would never have been designed as the Tesla Connector was since it would have needed 3 and not 2 main connectors. Just be thankful that Europe didn't standardise on the CHAdeMO connector Nissan used on LEAF.

Incidentally, the Tesla implementation of CCS Plug on the Supercharger shows how neatly the CCS2 can be and I wish other CCS Charger makers would take note
 
Kithmo said:
It takes me back to the 70s and the Betamax V VHS battle. Betamax was supposedly better quality but VHS won out because more manufacturers supported it.
Click to expand...

that was due to Sony, who held all of the betamax patents refusing to licence them cheaply... whereas JVC who held the VHS patents made them available cheaply... Sony went on to make the same mistakes with minidisc and other things... all long gone, in spite of being great technology...
 
jackois said:
that was due to Sony, who held all of the betamax patents refusing to licence them cheaply... whereas JVC who held the VHS patents made them available cheaply... Sony went on to make the same mistakes with minidisc and other things... all long gone, in spite of being great technology...
Click to expand...
Betamax used more components and higher tolerances than VHS and that made VHS much cheaper to produce. Betamax offered studio quality recording but very few could afford it at the time! (Just a bit of history)

Same reason 1ph is fitted instead of 3ph - fewer or cheaper parts, so manufacturers go for the lowest cost and highest profit
 
jackois said:
that was due to Sony, who held all of the betamax patents refusing to licence them cheaply... whereas JVC who held the VHS patents made them available cheaply... Sony went on to make the same mistakes with minidisc and other things... all long gone, in spite of being great technology...
Click to expand...
Was always a major failing of Sony, They tied every product down with patents and proprietary connectors etc. that made them more expensive than they were worth and consequently each of them became redundant before their time.
 
5teep said:
Was always a major failing of Sony, They tied every product down with patents and proprietary connectors etc. that made them more expensive than they were worth and consequently each of them became redundant before their time.
Click to expand...
Sounds a bit 'appley' too, but they have fans who are willing to pay. :)
 
5teep said:
Was always a major failing of Sony, They tied every product down with patents and proprietary connectors etc. that made them more expensive than they were worth and consequently each of them became redundant before their time.
Click to expand...
They used to make some top class products - I had a very expensive minidisc player that had fully automated tape deck, cd player a cmtcp500md. The sound that came out of such a small unit was to my ears - fantastic. Had mini disc players, headphones the lot all great. 10 years later bought a head unit for a car 2nd hand also spot on. Bought a new one in 2010 never been so disappointed with the sound quality - no more SONY for me, feels like innovation died and they have gone for cost cutting.
 
gazza487 said:
They used to make some top class products - I had a very expensive minidisc player that had fully automated tape deck, cd player a cmtcp500md. The sound that came out of such a small unit was to my ears - fantastic. Had mini disc players, headphones the lot all great. 10 years later bought a head unit for a car 2nd hand also spot on. Bought a new one in 2010 never been so disappointed with the sound quality - no more SONY for me, feels like innovation died and they have gone for cost cutting.
Click to expand...
That's the other end of the stick, Chinese copy electronics has pretty much ruined the market. Virtually no company makes really good quality equipment any more because nobody will pay the price when they can get what appears to be the same thing for much less.
I was looking for a good quality Bluetooth earpiece and the likes of Amazon are overrun with no-name Chinese products while there's nothing from known brands.
 
Real hifi has almost vanished from mainstream discourse, although specialist dealers still peddle the stuff (as my bank account knows to its cost). I think convenience and OK sound has won out over "my God will you listen to the depth of that sound stage!"
 
CCS2 has been legislated as the standard for Australia since 2020, is the European standard and probably other countries so the US Tesla system is likely to only be the US/Canada standard.

CCS may be bulky but it is robust and will take the knocks well I think. While the Tesla system is simpler, 3 phase is not an option and the supercharger cable still has to be liquid cooled so is heavy.

There isn't a lot of difference for home AC charging comparing the Type 2 to the Tesla connector anyway but the type 2 has 3 phase capability & Tesla doesn't.

The US has always come up with its own standards & often this is based on the clout of commercial interests and how much they donate to political parties. Having a dual voltage electricity supply is quite a weird anomaly.
 
Last edited:
Rolfe said:
Real hifi has almost vanished from mainstream discourse, although specialist dealers still peddle the stuff (as my bank account knows to its cost). I think convenience and OK sound has won out over "my God will you listen to the depth of that sound stage!"
Click to expand...
Was real hifi ever mainstream discourse, no of course not. It's only ever been conversation for those that think they can hear things better than the others. :)
I used to get my equipment from Richer Sounds, a superb source, and still is but since moving house a few years ago have ditched all the separates systems, surround sound etc and don't really miss any of it. (maybe the surround sound a bit).
 
DBedford said:
We all get older and our ears accept lo-fi.
Happy New Year all
Click to expand...

Mine don't!

It's mainly the young people I'm talking about. Youngsters who would have been putting together their first separates system are settling for clean but unengaging digital wallpaper.

Happy New Year to you too!
 
The topic question begs the “where” sub question. EU has long settled for CCS2. Even new Nissans (whose Leaf was stubbornly shipped with chademo all these years) have CCS2 ports here in the old continent.
As a different geography US is now settled once and for all: CCS will go the way of the dodo as far as manufacturers are concerned.
China has GBT so that’s hardly changing as well.
I have no idea what happening down under to make a proper comment regarding Australia :)
 
I think "down under" they also use CCS2, with a smattering of CHAdeMO. Much like the EU/UK.
 
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

New EVs from MG: MG S9 & MG9 plus hot topics from the forums
Published
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom