Will NACS win (eventually)?

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turntoport

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With nacs being adopted by most us manufacturers, the competition between the tesla standard and CCS Type 2 has hotted-up (occasionally literally) quite a bit. 'There can be only one', said the highlander, so was he right and if so which? Afaik the us system is physically far superior (i.e. smaller), but the safety aspects of voltage management with fewer pins used for multiple functions obviously carries some increase of safety risk. Thoughts?
 
This thread should probably be in the General board as it's not MG4 specific.

From a quick search, it looks like it offers dual purpose to the usual DC charging pins. (So the same pins could be used for AC charging). But I don't see how that few pins could offer 3-phase charging?

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In the grand scheme of things though, the EU and UK have standardised on the CCS2 connection so that isn't going to change. Even Teslas sold over here (now) have CCS2 ports (AFAIK - I think only the Model S and maybe Model X use the NACS port and thus need an adapter).
 
There are a few videos on this on YouTube as siteguru points out NACS can’t do 3 phase, not enough pins. Not much issue in the UK where most domestic is single phase but I believe a lot of Europe has 3phase (may be wrong) but what Europe does will be the same for UK.

Europe decided on CCS. It’s a little bulkier than NACS sure but that’s normal for us just look at a UK plug vs US! A physical divide on HV DC and AC seems sensible - imagine the bang of sending 350kW down a 7kW charger (not that I’ve heard of it happen but sure the risk increases as more manufacturers try it in their own version).
 
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No support for three phase (3Ø) is a big deal, while only the MG4 extended range supports 3Ø 11 kW charging models like the ZS EV support 3Ø across the range.

Outside the US, it's a fair generalisation to say the connector battle has been won by CCS2 (except in Japan). Teslas for example here in NZ are CCS2 and their Supercharger network is all CCS2.

It is a tribute to Tesla's pioneering and innovative efforts that the US is switching to NACS. The ergonomics of the connector are certainly nice compared with the bulky CCS2.
 
Different charging sockets between countries is still less radical than having the driving controls on the opposite side of the car. If the world can cope with right and left hand drives it can cope with more than one type of charging socket, especially since it's no more bother than using a travel adapter when abroad.
 
kiwi said:
No support for three phase (3Ø) is a big deal, while only the MG4 extended range supports 3Ø 11 kW charging models like the ZS EV support 3Ø across the range.
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The UK phase 1 (2022) version of the MG4 in SE LR and Trophy LR also support 11kW. I believe you are correct for the phase 2 (2023) versions of the MG4.
 
Yes and more precisely: the Australian/New Zealand MG4 2024 model year. Why model years don't align with calendar years is another story.
 
It takes me back to the 70s and the Betamax V VHS battle. Betamax was supposedly better quality but VHS won out because more manufacturers supported it.
 
I've still got a couple S-Betamax video recorders. Really great picture quality. I always said I would never downgrade to VHS, but then of course DVDs happened.
 
Kithmo said:
It takes me back to the 70s and the Betamax V VHS battle. Betamax was supposedly better quality but VHS won out because more manufacturers supported it.
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It's Kithmo's comment that i was thinking along: Separation of 400/800V dc from 1p/3p ac courtesy separate physical wiring (per ccs2) sounds like a no-brainer compared to the system reliability/safety risks of switched pins (per nacs), however it would be interesting to see the fmeca/etc and failure stats related to the two systems. But my thought was more along the lines of US market = Tesla (effectively, at present and for the foreseeable future) = acs; european manufacturers = vanquished = ccs2; japanese = vanquished = chademo, Chinese = GB/T-Chademo??
Hmmm, have us europeans 'blown it', and nacs or the nascent GB/T-chademo bastard rule the roost in 10 years time??

sorry, ***: ..."US market = Tesla (effectively, at present and for the foreseeable future) = nacs..."
apologies.
 
turntoport said:
With nacs being adopted by most us manufacturers, the competition between the tesla standard and CCS Type 2 has hotted-up (occasionally literally) quite a bit. 'There can be only one', said the highlander, so was he right and if so which? Afaik the us system is physically far superior (i.e. smaller), but the safety aspects of voltage management with fewer pins used for multiple functions obviously carries some increase of safety risk. Thoughts?
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The NACS system is clever, but it is too clever for global use as it does not support 3 phase charging (as others have observed). It is easy to optimise if you just consider the needs of one market.

CCS may well be bulky and inelegant but it is a global standard and does support the needs of every market.

Comparing them doesn't make a lot of sense: one is the product of a global standardisation effort, one is a single company targeting their home market.

We haven't standardised on a single domestic power connector standard globally so I am certain we won't on EV charging either, especially as there is no cross-border traffic issue and adapters are easy as others have pointed out.
 
From what I've read NACs is not any kind of standard (as in it's never been through any kind of testing), it's American motor manufacturers trying to protect their income by pimping a proprietary connector.
I can see a need for CCS 3 as a smaller neater version of CCS 2 but there's only so far you can go in reducing size as you need to maintain seperation between the high voltage pins.
 
5teep said:
From what I've read NACs is not any kind of standard (as in it's never been through any kind of testing), it's American motor manufacturers trying to protect their income by pimping a proprietary connector.
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Well it has been extensively tested in millions of Teslas for years. But you are right, they are putting it through standards approval as part of the expansion in the US with other makers.

5teep said:
I can see a need for CCS 3 as a smaller neater version of CCS 2 but there's only so far you can go in reducing size as you need to maintain seperation between the high voltage pins.
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Yes and this would create huge compatibility headaches so I doubt it will ever happen.

One advantage CCS2 has (the americans use CCS1), is it supports higher voltages and power flows, although Tesla claim they can match this with active cable cooling.
 
dsimpkins said:
No, there isn't HD DVD any more, but there used to be
Click to expand...

Interesting! Thanks for the link to that article. I confess I had rather forgotten about that abortive attempt to create something which was actually outside the official DVD format.
 
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