ABRP

[GavinJ]

Has anyone used A Better Route Planner (ABRP) on the MG5 yet? I just checked the journey I have just completed using starting SoC for both legs. In both cases the ending SoC was 100% accurate. Interested to know of others' experience as I am hoping to go to Orkney via Scrabster later this year (Covid permitting)

 

[Petriix]

I'm not really a fan of ABRP. It tends to add unnecessary charging stops while your SOC is still high so the charging rate will be lower. In the MG5 I'd always plan my first stop at around 150 miles (weather dependent) so as to charge from around 10%, with up to 20 miles for reaching plan B. I'd also always plan my stops at locations with multiple chargers or nearby alternatives. ABRP doesn't seem to be able to do that.

 

[GavinJ]

Thanks very much. Very useful.

 

[LiamWhales]

I have used abrp for a trip once now. I originally provided the PID's and efficiency data to them for it all to work. I found it was a little pessimistic in terms of my range but that's better than it being optimistic

 

[LiamWhales]

I'm not really a fan of ABRP. It tends to add unnecessary charging stops while your SOC is still high so the charging rate will be lower. In the MG5 I'd always plan my first stop at around 150 miles (weather dependent) so as to charge from around 10%, with up to 20 miles for reaching plan B. I'd also always plan my stops at locations with multiple chargers or nearby alternatives. ABRP doesn't seem to be able to do that.

It takes into account the charging rate you get at whatever SoC it think you will have when you arrive so it plans the optimal driving time. You have a charging overhead figure (defaults to 5min I think) so that you can adjust it's recommendations. It does give alterative nearby chargers, if you select one it's picked you can cycle through other options. The main thing that makes me use abrp is the live SoC giving you the ability to replan your charge stops on the go with the press of a button.

 

[Petriix]

It takes into account the charging rate you get at whatever SoC it think you will have when you arrive so it plans the optimal driving time. You have a charging overhead figure (defaults to 5min I think) so that you can adjust it's recommendations. It does give alterative nearby chargers, if you select one it's picked you can cycle through other options. The main thing that makes me use abrp is the live SoC giving you the ability to replan your charge stops on the go with the press of a button.

If it works for you that's great. I can't figure out what it's basing the calculation on. I set it to 4 miles per kWh at 65mph which would give me roughly 185 miles from 100% to 5% (with a 48.8kWh usable battery), but it still wants me to charge on a 175 mile journey and thinks I'll arrive on 5% if I drive at 60mph. Baffling.

 

[LiamWhales]

So 185 miles from that charge of battery would mean you were getting 4 miles per kWh on average for the whole journey. But there will be different speed roads, elevations, it assumes some battery degradation and other things, all that is taken into account.

Going from 100% to 5% on a 175mile journey is an average of 3.77 miles per kWh for the whole journey which doesn't seem that unreasonable if your getting 4 @ 65mph on flat smooth running and driving at 60mph in the real world with different sections like roundabouts and junctions that mean and you'll be starting and stopping etc.

Have you driven that route? If so how did your range compare? If you take the range you actually get Vs the estimate and then uplift the efficiency to compensate it'll match more closely.

I find it matches what I get but then I use a cheap Bluetooth OBD2 dongle, abrp gets live data from my car and learns my driving efficiency profile has my actual battery degradation (none) etc. so it all adjusts based on my actual experience

 

[Mark Holmes]

So 185 miles from that charge of battery would mean you were getting 4 miles per kWh on average for the whole journey. But there will be different speed roads, elevations, it assumes some battery degradation and other things, all that is taken into account.

Going from 100% to 5% on a 175mile journey is an average of 3.77 miles per kWh for the whole journey which doesn't seem that unreasonable if your getting 4 @ 65mph on flat smooth running and driving at 60mph in the real world with different sections like roundabouts and junctions that mean and you'll be starting and stopping etc.

Have you driven that route? If so how did your range compare? If you take the range you actually get Vs the estimate and then uplift the efficiency to compensate it'll match more closely.

I find it matches what I get but then I use a cheap Bluetooth OBD2 dongle, abrp gets live data from my car and learns my driving efficiency profile has my actual battery degradation (none) etc. so it all adjusts based on my actual experience

See my post about road trip that I posted last night, it may help

 

[Petriix]

So 185 miles from that charge of battery would mean you were getting 4 miles per kWh on average for the whole journey. But there will be different speed roads, elevations, it assumes some battery degradation and other things, all that is taken into account.

Going from 100% to 5% on a 175mile journey is an average of 3.77 miles per kWh for the whole journey which doesn't seem that unreasonable if your getting 4 @ 65mph on flat smooth running and driving at 60mph in the real world with different sections like roundabouts and junctions that mean and you'll be starting and stopping etc.

Have you driven that route? If so how did your range compare? If you take the range you actually get Vs the estimate and then uplift the efficiency to compensate it'll match more closely.

I find it matches what I get but then I use a cheap Bluetooth OBD2 dongle, abrp gets live data from my car and learns my driving efficiency profile has my actual battery degradation (none) etc. so it all adjusts based on my actual experience

It may not seem unreasonable to you, but I would have thought that the 4 miles per kWh at 65mph would be higher at 60mph, so 3.77 is decidedly odd. I seem to need to set it to 4.8 mile per kWh to get accurate figures, which is clearly nonsense.

I've not driven the journey yet given the current situation, but I've done enough other driving to have a good understanding about the range achievable at different speeds and temperatures. I got 3.2 miles per kWh at 70mph at 10 degrees C in a controlled test, and it uses roughly 20% less energy to drive at 60mph so I would expect 4 miles per kWh at 60mph at 10 degrees C. So I would expect to arrive on 11% (or just drive a little faster and leave less in reserve).

With a maximum speed of 60mph, I would actually average a fair bit slower so efficiency in the real world would be higher. And, with warmer temperatures, I would expect to easily achieve 4 miles per kWh with a maximum speed of 65mph. With the actual efficiency of 3.77mile per kWh being the target, I think I could drive a little faster still. We actually achieved over 3.3 miles per kWh at 6 degrees driving as fast as conditions and speed limits allowed from Milton Keynes to Norwich, so a bit warmer and a bit slower would easily get us there.

It's all a moot point really, because the likelihood is that one of us would need the toilet and we would be stopping anyway. I would then have a series of potential stops planned depending on the point at which the 'I need a wee' happens. Ideally it would be at a supermarket rather than a service station, and I would be looking for a cheaper charger and a good location rather than anything else (given that it would just be a bonus stop rather than out of necessity).

But, no matter what parameters I put into ABRP it always suggests stopping in places that I wouldn't choose. I'd like to be able to set the maximum price per kWh I'd be willing to pay and preferred location types, but it just plans the route for the shortest possible journey time. I want to be able to tell it that I'm happy to drive slower over shorter distances and would happily add 5 minutes if the stop is in a better location.

 

[LiamWhales]

It may not seem unreasonable to you, but I would have thought that the 4 miles per kWh at 65mph would be higher at 60mph, so 3.77 is decidedly odd. I seem to need to set it to 4.8 mile per kWh to get accurate figures, which is clearly nonsense.

I've not driven the journey yet given the current situation, but I've done enough other driving to have a good understanding about the range achievable at different speeds and temperatures. I got 3.2 miles per kWh at 70mph at 10 degrees C in a controlled test, and it uses roughly 20% less energy to drive at 60mph so I would expect 4 miles per kWh at 60mph at 10 degrees C. So I would expect to arrive on 11% (or just drive a little faster and leave less in reserve).

With a maximum speed of 60mph, I would actually average a fair bit slower so efficiency in the real world would be higher. And, with warmer temperatures, I would expect to easily achieve 4 miles per kWh with a maximum speed of 65mph. With the actual efficiency of 3.77mile per kWh being the target, I think I could drive a little faster still. We actually achieved over 3.3 miles per kWh at 6 degrees driving as fast as conditions and speed limits allowed from Milton Keynes to Norwich, so a bit warmer and a bit slower would easily get us there.

It's all a moot point really, because the likelihood is that one of us would need the toilet and we would be stopping anyway. I would then have a series of potential stops planned depending on the point at which the 'I need a wee' happens. Ideally it would be at a supermarket rather than a service station, and I would be looking for a cheaper charger and a good location rather than anything else (given that it would just be a bonus stop rather than out of necessity).

But, no matter what parameters I put into ABRP it always suggests stopping in places that I wouldn't choose. I'd like to be able to set the maximum price per kWh I'd be willing to pay and preferred location types, but it just plans the route for the shortest possible journey time. I want to be able to tell it that I'm happy to drive slower over shorter distances and would happily add 5 minutes if the stop is in a better location.

I get that you'd expect to get further, my point was only that you wouldn't be travelling at a steady 65mph on the flat for the whole journey. This is my efficency curve from data logged over a good number of drives although they have mostly been running around rather than longer journeys. I don't particularly try and be as eco as possible, I just drive.

ABRP does let you enter facilities details so that you have the ones you want at the charging stop. You also have network preference options and as each provider generally puts their chargers at similar locations this can also help you filter down.

What nav app are you using that has all these features? I haven't found any route planner that has any where near the number of features available in abrp

 

[LiamWhales]

Here's an example plan I've tried, for a trip I plan on taking with the family over the summer. First off the basic plan.

Seems pretty reasonable to me, you can click into each stop and see the factilities, other nearby chargers etc. Tell it to ignore that charger and find a different plan.

Then lets say you decide you'd ideally like to stop for some food around 2h30min into the trip. You can easily do that as well. This pic shows 3h but I changed it to 2h30 as it gave better options.

Then you can check over the stop and see all the facilities etc nearby

Then this is the new route with that amenity stop added

Then once you are driving with your phone hooked up to android auto you can hit share to map to get the directions on the car screen. Hit alternatives to find a charger nearby when one of the kids announces they need the toilet. And when driving with live data, find your doing better in fuel economy and hit re-plan and it'll update a new route based on you current SoC and consumption.

I haven't seen any route planner with anywhere near this level of features, if you have a good alternative I'd really like to see it.

 

[Petriix]

I guess I need to explore it a little more. My point isn't that there are better route planners, just that there are so many subjective factors that I have to plan my route manually, dragging the line in Google Maps where necessary.

 

[LiamWhales]

I get you, just wanted to make you aware that a lot of the feature are there. I'm mostly looking for something I can just hit a destination into and go. I feel I get that with ABRP and when I can also hit replan, on the go, based on my live SoC, that is invaluable.

 

[Petriix]

I get you, just wanted to make you aware that a lot of the feature are there. I'm mostly looking for something I can just hit a destination into and go. I feel I get that with ABRP and when I can also hit replan, on the go, based on my live SoC, that is invaluable.

I think you're probably right. I just need to learn how to use it. I've given it another play and can see some of the advantages. It's still not trivial to get it to show supermarkets with Podpoint rapids along the route.

I think some of the issue might be that they have the MG5 battery size incorrectly recorded as around 44kWh. Maybe also the consumption data you've given them was all gathered in winter so is accordingly pessimistic?

 

[LiamWhales]

Oh, I did point them at the EV database for the specs of the car. I'll raise it with them to get it corrected. Yeah the majority of the consumption data has been over winter in hilly sheffield so definately not optimal conditions.

 

[rogerco]

ABRP doesn't appear as an app in Android Auto (AA) so you can't use it on the car display in place of the built in. Only Google Maps and Waze seem to be AA compatible - or has anyone found a different one that works and is EV aware (displays charge points and calculates routes to taking account of charge state)
Closely related issue is that none of the charger mapping apps (ZapMap etc) appear to play with AA.
What would be useful on the car display is an app that showed a map with your position and about 20 miles around (and locked to north at the top, none of the confusing auto-rotation to your direction of travel which I find makes most moving maps unusable) and reads your GOM miles remaining and highlights when there ere less than three charge points within range - "divert to nearest charge point now!" alert.
Technically this must be possible

 

[Mark Holmes]

ABRP doesn't appear as an app in Android Auto (AA) so you can't use it on the car display in place of the built in. Only Google Maps and Waze seem to be AA compatible - or has anyone found a different one that works and is EV aware (displays charge points and calculates routes to taking account of charge state)
Closely related issue is that none of the charger mapping apps (ZapMap etc) appear to play with AA.
What would be useful on the car display is an app that showed a map with your position and about 20 miles around (and locked to north at the top, none of the confusing auto-rotation to your direction of travel which I find makes most moving maps unusable) and reads your GOM miles remaining and highlights when there ere less than three charge points within range - "divert to nearest charge point now!" alert.
Technically this must be possible

It will appear with the paid version but not the free app.

 

[rogerco]

Then once you are driving with your phone hooked up to android auto you can hit share to map to get the directions on the car screen.

HOW???? Doesn't work for me. What map does it share to? Does it read live charge state/GOM

 

[rogerco]

Soz, crossed replies. So the paid version works - does it read charge state?

 

[rogerco]

Hmm - Premium ABRP costs £44 a year. way more than any other app. The details don't mention Android Auto, only Apple Watch and AppleCarPlay which probably explains the price (apple users always pay more).
Possibly worth it if you are regularly doing complex different routes, but if you only have a couple of 200-600 mile trips that you repeatedly make not worth paying for.
@LiamWhales and @Mark Holmes are you iPhone users?