Breaking up CPS...Good or bad?

I think network operators are missing a trick, and unusually, I think could learn a lesson from the fossil fuel industry.

Fuel forecourts make only 2-3 pence a litre profit on fuel, most of their income is on sales in the shop. The network provider should either install a kiosk (with attached rest room of course), or at least some vending machines. this way they could keep their prices competative and make a profit on their investment.
 
They could put a canopy with lights over the chargers to keep the worst of the weather off the drivers and let them see what they're doing. Just like they do with petrol pumps. They could even put solar panels on the top!

Considering that EV drivers spend longer waiting for their vehicles to fill up, and don't have to stand over them (holding a pump handle) while it happens, we are an absolutely captive market. Somewhere warm and dry to sit and have a cup of tea while the car charges would make a bloody fortune.

To be fair, this doesn't so much apply to the ChargePlace Scotland chargers I use, which are single things serving a village or a tourist attraction, or destination chargers in a car park, but the bigger banks of chargers I see being put in, open to the elements and with nothing to do but sit in your car and steam gently while it charges, are just idiotic.

It's got to the point where I'm seriously thinking about what to wear if I'm setting out on a bad-weather drive where I'll have to charge away from home. It's something that would barely cross my mind if I was setting out and knew I'd need to get petrol somewhere, but with EV charging it's a big issue. Even carrying a waterproof in the car may not be enough, as you'd have to open the door and get out to put it on. It really doesn't need to be like this.
 
Sounds like a great opportunity for a man with a coffee van, canopy and some lights. Security, coffee and shelter.
 
All your proposals are fine but they all involve not inconsiderable additional cost - land, maintenance, staffing etc. All payable by someone who isn't the company providing the facility.

How much profit is there in a cup of tea to pay for all this? Assuming that each person charging has a cup in their 40 minutes. I doubt I would. You'd soon negate the cost benefit of EV driving if you were buying cups of tea all the time!! :)

You do already have somewhere dry to sit. It isn't always raining cats and dogs. Not down south anyway :)
 
All your proposals are fine but they all involve not inconsiderable additional cost - land, maintenance, staffing etc. All payable by someone who isn't the company providing the facility.

How much profit is there in a cup of tea to pay for all this? Assuming that each person charging has a cup in their 40 minutes. I doubt I would. You'd soon negate the cost benefit of EV driving if you were buying cups of tea all the time!! :)

You do already have somewhere dry to sit. It isn't always raining cats and dogs. Not down south anyway :)
If petrol forecourts can make a profit on a customer who is there for 5 minutes, I'm sure network providers can make a profit on someone who is there for 30 minutes or more.

But a mobile "greasy spoon" is a brilliant idea. I wonder who will spot one first? :)
 
Petrol forecourts have a much quicker turnover of customers, and many more of them in any given hour, as they have loads of pumps and each one is only occupied for maybe 5 minutes. Four people sitting on rapid chargers for 5 minutes just isn't the same.
 
Sounds like a great opportunity for a man with a coffee van, canopy and some lights. Security, coffee and shelter.

Yup, if the chargers are busy enough. There's a wee tea-room only a step from our village charger, but I haven't asked the owner if she has seen any increase in custom since it was installed.
 
Petrol forecourts have a much quicker turnover of customers, and many more of them in any given hour, as they have loads of pumps and each one is only occupied for maybe 5 minutes. Four people sitting on rapid chargers for 5 minutes just isn't the same.

If we were only going to sit on the charger for five minutes this wouldn't be an issue. We'd just sit in the car. It's the fact that it's often going to be half an hour that changes the equation. Also, as more people move to EVs, the customer footfall is going to change. If petrol stations find it a good business model to stock a small grocery attached to the petrol vending, at some point the same is going to be true of EV charging stations.
 
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They do exist! I imagine the capital outlay will mean it takes a while for them to be adopted everywhere.
 
I saw that picture earlier. That is what we need. That banks of new chargers are still being installed without this facility almost beggars belief.
 
t's the Gridserve Electric Forecourt at Braintree. This is the model they should be using for motorway services. The canopy has solar panels on it also.
 
t's the Gridserve Electric Forecourt at Braintree. This is the model they should be using for motorway services. The canopy has solar panels on it also.
They need to change the bays, front charging port cars hang out the back of the bay and the rear port cars hang over the front!

Gridserve employee told me the Norwich one is differently laid out and that is the basis for all new Electric Forecourts.
 
t's the Gridserve Electric Forecourt at Braintree. This is the model they should be using for motorway services. The canopy has solar panels on it also.

Absolutely. I was watching a review of charging stations done in summer by a guy in a t-shirt and thinking, do that again in January and see how you get on.

I agree that the cars need to be end-on to the chargers for best use of space, and I wonder about that gap between the canopies. Might allow quite a bit of rain in, better to have the whole space covered. And a nice wee snack shop at the end with some space for tables and chairs. Like the spaces some bookshops have to encourage people to stay.

Needs to be manned, but most petrol forecourts are manned - although you can often "pay at pump" out of hours as well. Vision of paradise, quite honestly. And it wouldn't even stink of petrol and diesel.
 
I think that IF this happens it will not be soon and if/when it does then Swarco are well placed to take over the network. Chargeplace Scotland don't own any chargers, they just pay Swarco to run the back end network.
 
Petrol forecourts have a much quicker turnover of customers, and many more of them in any given hour, as they have loads of pumps and each one is only occupied for maybe 5 minutes. Four people sitting on rapid chargers for 5 minutes just isn't the same.
But with longer charging stops people will spend more and want more options: like a meal and several rounds of drinks, so that could mean more profits per visit, offsetting the reduced numbers.
 
Exactly. I often wonder who the main customers of these small forecourt grocer's shops are. Most people wanting fuel just come in, fill up and pay, maybe picking up a bag of crisps or a bar of chocolate as they go. Only occasionally, I think, does the fuel purchaser do a small grocery shop at the same time. I suspect that these wee shops, being open such long hours, double as grocery corner shops for people in the relatively close vicinity. However it works, it's obviously a viable business model.

They have another function. If you're driving after dark and need fuel, it's really reassuring to pull up somewhere where there isn't just light and shelter, but an actual human being. If it's late enough perhaps the shop is closed but there is a single employee manning a kiosk to take the payment. This works almost as well. (Particularly when that employee has kept a box of creme eggs on the kiosk counter so that peckish drivers can get a sugar rush while they're there.)

So one way or another, it's a viable model even though the vast majority of customers simply grab the fuel, pay and go. It's viable enough to keep the shop open quite long hours even though "pay at pump" is an increasingly common option for drivers who don't want to go into the shop. They could close the shop and make the entire forecourt automated, but they generally don't. (Asda at Straiton is entirely automated, and I have always avoided it in favour of the nearby Sainsbury's simply because it's impersonal and unfriendly.)

Operating an EV charging station along the same lines should be more attractive, not less. Most drivers will choose to leave the car charging for long enough to come inside, use the toilets and if there's a cup of coffee available they'll probably jump at it. I think they'd sell more to the drivers and their passengers than the petrol forecourt, and they'd still be able to fulfil the corner-shop role too.

And especially from the perspective of the lone female driver, stopping somewhere like that has enormous attractions compared to stopping in a dark, windswept, rain-battered wasteland with no human presence to reassure, and no toilet facilites, warm dry waiting space or refreshments. Many people, I think, would pay a small premium for the electricity for this facility - just as I would go to Sainsbury's rather than Asda even though the petrol price was maybe 1p per litre more.
 
Needs to be manned, but most petrol forecourts are manned - although you can often "pay at pump" out of hours as well. Vision of paradise, quite honestly. And it wouldn't even stink of petrol and diesel.
I think its manned about 14 hours a day. After that its electric charging only.

Quite a few plain old non charing parking spaces there to for people just wanting the post office, costa or the WH Smiths. Snacks for sale are from Marks so reassuringly expensive.
 
They need to change the bays, front charging port cars hang out the back of the bay and the rear port cars hang over the front!

Gridserve employee told me the Norwich one is differently laid out and that is the basis for all new Electric Forecourts.
I was recently at the Norwich Forecourt, 22 CCS available plus Tesla Superchargers and 7kW posts. Had a Costa upstairs and a small M&S food place. Comfy seating too.
Lots of Solar panels and a massive battery storage area.

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