Christmas travel - help!

[Rolfe]

I have painted myself into a corner, and will have to drive 186 miles to my friend's house in Yorkshire on 23rd December. This is too far for the SR to manage on one charge in winter. Every EV in the country is likely to have detached itself from its wall-box teat on that day and decided to set off to visit its nearest and dearest. I am getting worried. I feel like I am walking into the next episode of the MacMaster Show.

ABRP, which seems to have little concern for the season of the year (I don't have a paid-for membership) thinks I should charge at Kirkby Lonsdale (on the Booth's 50 Kw chargers), but this is 131 miles into the journey. I don't have confidence that the car will make it that far in cold weather - not with my usual brand of motorway driving. I need somewhere sooner than that.

While I don't rule out 50 Kw chargers, I'd prefer something faster - the SR can go up to 90 Kw on a good day, and I've seen mine do 85 Kw. Glancing down the route there are some possibilities.

• Gretna motorway services. Lousy with chargers - four 350 Kw Ionitys, twelve 150 Kw Applegreens and a couple of 50 Kw Gridserves. However it tends to be popular for exactly that reason, and it could be an absolute scrum. Also, it's only 64 miles into my journey. Charging is likely to be slow, and I would not be at all confident of getting all the way to Halifax (another 121 miles) without a second stop, even if I was able to charge to a high SoC.
• Carlisle Ionitys. twelve 350 Kw chargers at the Carlisle Truck Stop. Tempting, although again there may be a queue. This is better, as it's 72 miles into my journey, leaving only 113 miles to go. But again charging won't start so fast, and I think I'd have to get higher than the 82% suggested by ABRP to be sure of making it all the way.
• Penrith Booth's, two 120 Kw Instavolts. This is close to perfect, as it is pretty much half way - 95 miles in and 92 miles to go. I can start at a fast charging speed and be sure to get as high as I need to get to my destination.

However. If I spurn Gretna and Carlisle, then I encounter a problem at Penrith, there is nothing worth mentioning between Penrith and Kirkby Lonsdale, which is too far. If I go directly to Penrith I must get a charge there, or I am toast. I'm not seriously concerned that the Instavolts might both be out of commission, but I am concerned about queuing when there are only two chargers. It's pretty close to the motorway.

If I choose to stop at either Gretna or Carlisle, these are probably interim stops to get me as far as Kirkby Lonsdale, where I'd need to pick up whatever I needed to get on to Halifax. Two charging stops on a journey of over 186 miles seems to be overkill, but more importantly it's two places where I might be caught in queues, not just one. This could be a nightmare all of its own on that day.

I'm thinking at the moment that I might look in to the Ionitys at Carlisle on the way and see if they're busy. If they're not then I can get something to be certain of reaching Kirkby Lonsdale (where there are four chargers at Booth's, although only 50 Kw) at least. If they are busy I would go on to Penrith with the intention of simply sitting there until I get on a charger. I'm not sure how big a risk that is, to be honest.

Any ideas, suggestions of other chargers, strategising, inside knowledge from people familiar with the area, welcome.

 

[johnb80]

Whilst I'm not familiar with your area, have you looked for unlocked Tesla Chargers? When theyre unlocked they seem to work very well at half decent prices.

 

[Gadget Geek]

How many miles/kWh do you get on the motorway?

That would be my starting point.

 

[Gomev]

I am genuinely shocked that you don't think the SR will get 131 miles in winter. I didn't realise the range of the LFP was that compromised. It has quite put me off going that route in the future.

 

[Grriff]

Whilst I'm not familiar with your area, have you looked for unlocked Tesla Chargers? When theyre unlocked they seem to work very well at half decent prices.

The only open Tesla chargers which might be useful are at Harrogate on the A61

 

[tsedge]

I am genuinely shocked that you don't think the SR will get 131 miles in winter. I didn't realise the range of the LFP was that compromised. It has quite put me off going that route in the future.

Some report as little as 100 miles, of course it depends on the temperature and battery preheat. The minimum I have seen on my LR is around 190 miles - but haven't been through mid winter yet, only got it in March.

 

[gnutrino]

I am genuinely shocked that you don't think the SR will get 131 miles in winter. I didn't realise the range of the LFP was that compromised. It has quite put me off going that route in the future.

EV Database quotes a real world worst case of 130mi on highways in cold weather - supposedly that's at -10C and with the heating on so it might be possible to squeeze out enough miles by putting on a few more layers and driving carefully (or just praying to climate change that it's mild around Christmas) but I can understand not wanting to rely on it.

 

[Rolfe]

I am genuinely shocked that you don't think the SR will get 131 miles in winter. I didn't realise the range of the LFP was that compromised. It has quite put me off going that route in the future.

It's possible that I'm being over-pessimistic here. But I'd rather play it safe the first time I'm doing a trip away from home in winter. I tend to drive fast on the motorway, it will be cold which will reduce range, and I'll have the heater on.

It may be that I'll be pleasantly surprised. But after a trip of just under 100 miles last week which was only partly motorway, I was down to 33%, and when I recharged after that the car was showing only 150 miles of range on the app. I've driven 14 miles in three short trips since then and it's showing 136 miles right now at 87% battery. Put the heater on and that will drop further. I'm seeing 2.2 miles/KWh overall and sometimes only 2.0.

I'll have a lot better idea of the score after this trip of course, but I don't want to be caught out in the Cumbrian moors two days before Christmas with stroppy cat in the car.

Maybe I will get 130 miles, but I'd rather work to a range of 100 miles for safety until I get a bit more experience and a better handle on it.

I'm not bothered by this at all or I would have bought the LR and gone all the way on a single charge. I thought about it while I was in the showroom and the dealer was trying to persuade me to do that! But I decided it wasn't worth it for only a handful of trips a year, when I wouldn't be in a hurry anyway. (My red line was that journey of nearly 100 miles I did last week, and which I do often in winter, which seems to be fine. It only uses 53% of the battery in summer. And since I got the car I have discovered that the car park I use in Glasgow has destination chargers so I really have no worries there.)

I would be completely relaxed about this trip and happy to stop for a while at Booth's either in Penrith or Kirkby Lonsdale, except for the date. I had originally planned to travel on the Thursday and beat the rush, but I rashly volunteered to do something at a Christmas concert on the Friday and now I'm panicking about huge queues at chargers and how best to play it.

Whilst I'm not familiar with your area, have you looked for unlocked Tesla Chargers? When theyre unlocked they seem to work very well at half decent prices.

The only open Tesla chargers which might be useful are at Harrogate on the A61

Actually the only Tesla chargers on my route are at Tebay, and they're not open. No wonder, because that was the scene of the infamous queueing Teslas incident last Christmas Eve, and there are no other EV chargers at that service station. (There are some being installed but they're not operational yet.)

I go A701, M74, M6, A65. Beyond Gretna the motorway service stations have nothing but a couple of 50 Kw Gridserves each, if that, and while I've found them to be OK midweek in summer I wouldn't go near them the Saturday before Christmas. There are probably EV drivers around who are naïve enough to do that, and they're bound to be trouble.

Realistically I think that Gretna, the Carlisle Ionitys and Booth's at Penrith are the realistic options. I think the reports of the queues of Teslas at Tebay last Christmas Eve are spooking me. If it was that bad for Tesla drivers, what's it like for us plebs? So I'm seeking advice from people with Christmas driving experience.

Some report as little as 100 miles, of course it depends on the temperature and battery preheat. The minimum I have seen on my LR is around 190 miles - but haven't been through mid winter yet, only got it in March.

Battery pre-heat. Any advice? People are generally saying it's not worth it because you lose so much range doing the heating.

The thing is, there's not actually any point in trying to spin out the range unless I find myself in a sticky situation. I'll have to stop, the question is, how to strategise it so as to avoid getting into a sticky situation in the first place. And how to avoid spending ages queueing for two chargers.

I'm thinking at the moment that I should check on ZapMaps if the Penrith Instavolts are operational, and if they are, just go there, prepared to queue. Maybe calm my driving down a bit in case something drastic happens and I have to go on to Kirkby Lonsdale. I feel more confident about Kirkby Lonsdale because there are four chargers, not just two, and it's over five miles from the motorway (logical reasons), and I've charged there before with no problem (illogical reason). But I'm really not happy about the 131 miles part.

 

[MartinSEsr]

I am genuinely shocked that you don't think the SR will get 131 miles in winter. I didn't realise the range of the LFP was that compromised. It has quite put me off going that route in the future.

I've an MG4 SE SR. Usually the trip to work and back, 80 miles of lanes and M6, uses 50% of the battery. I usually think the realisitic range is 160 miles to empty.

However yesterday I was driving in towns, stop start, heavy traffic. I did 100 miles in total and the GoM reported a range of 30 miles remaining when I got home, with 20% of the battery left. Meaning the range had dropped to 130 miles. The m/Kwh dropped to 2.6 from its usual 2.9-3.1

And it wasn't even especially cold yesterday!

 

[Gadget Geek]

I personally would aim for the services with the most chargers as there will be more opportunity to "pick n mix" which charger you use.

 

[tkmaxx5]

You may or may not be being pessimistic but definitely worth being prepared. I drove through France (admittedly in summer) and was usually pessimistic with my range even based on route planner but pleased to have plans B and C so I had an idea where to divert to.

I'd say if Penrith is a good shout presumably you've looked at other options there - ie there are Geniepoint in Morrisons over the road, Gridserve at Rheged just down the A66 - so at least 3 reasonably fast CCS options?

 

[Robf]

Battery pre-heat. Any advice? People are generally saying it's not worth it because you lose so much range doing the heating.

If you pre-heat the battery before leaving and using your home charger then it should increase your range? But probably best to turn of before you head off.

 

[siteguru]

Agree ^^^

But battery preheat would probably take all of the charge from a granny lead, so you'd need to charge to 100% and balance, unplug, start battery preheat (so SoC tips off from 100%), replug and let the granny power the preheat.

 

[Rolfe]

Agree ^^^

But battery preheat would probably take all of the charge from a granny lead, so you'd need to charge to 100% and balance, unplug, start battery preheat (so SoC tips off from 100%), replug and let the granny power the preheat.

Yes, I had thought that was what it would probably take, so probably not something I want to faff around with when I have to get going. Might try it some time though and see how it goes.

You may or may not be being pessimistic but definitely worth being prepared. I drove through France (admittedly in summer) and was usually pessimistic with my range even based on route planner but pleased to have plans B and C so I had an idea where to divert to.

I'd say if Penrith is a good shout presumably you've looked at other options there - ie there are Geniepoint in Morrisons over the road, Gridserve at Rheged just down the A66 - so at least 3 reasonably fast CCS options?

Thanks. The Geniepoint is currently flagged as out of service in ZapMaps, and these seem to have a lousy reputation anyway. And it's only one connector. I'm not really counting on it to save the day if there's a queue at Booth's. (It also has "restrictions" flagged, but it may only mean you have to pay for parking. The same applies to Booth's, and as far as I remember the other Booth's I used was open to all for about £1.50 parking fee, refundable if you bought anything out of the shop.)

I had noted the Gridserves at Rheged, another three connectors, which could be useful if the Booth's Instavolts are down, but I would have thought not worth leaving a queue at Booth's for. They could also be very busy, and they're only 50 Kw.

I think the choice is coming down to, do I stop at Carlisle and get on one of the Ionitys, which will probably be fairly OK as there are 12 connectors, but would probably still need another stop later in the journey, or do I chance to luck and go right on to Penrith, risking a queue for the two Instavolts there. How long a queue can there seriously be? Most people on the motorway will probably go for either Gretna or Carlisle, where there are a lot more connectors. It's just that these are a bit too early for me and my SR battery, with Halifax as my destination.

 

[tkmaxx5]

Thanks. The Geniepoint is currently flagged as out of service in ZapMaps, and these seem to have a lousy reputation anyway. And it's only one connector. I'm not really counting on it to save the day if there's a queue at Booth's. (It also has "restrictions" flagged, but it may only mean you have to pay for parking. The same applies to Booth's, and as far as I remember the other Booth's I used was open to all for about £1.50 parking fee, refundable if you bought anything out of the shop.)

I had noted the Gridserves at Rheged, another three connectors, which could be useful if the Booth's Instavolts are down, but I would have thought not worth leaving a queue at Booth's for. They could also be very busy, and they're only 50 Kw.

I think the choice is coming down to, do I stop at Carlisle and get on one of the Ionitys, which will probably be fairly OK as there are 12 connectors, but would probably still need another stop later in the journey, or do I chance to luck and go right on to Penrith, risking a queue for the two Instavolts there. How long a queue can there seriously be? Most people on the motorway will probably go for either Gretna or Carlisle, where there are a lot more connectors. It's just that these are a bit too early for me and my SR battery, with Halifax as my destination.

Yes it's all part of the conundrum!! My instinct is that the chargers just off the motorway (like Booths Penrith) are less likely to see queues than those at services, but I'd prefer a shot at a bank of 12 like you refer to at Carlisle! But then 23/12is likely to be busy enough at Booths - you may find the chargers ICED!

If I were you I'd probably want to know there was an option later in the trip anyway - what if it's really cold so you need heaters on and there is a crash that holds you up on the motorway etc?

When planning our trip from W Yorks to Brittany I made a note of all the charging stops that worked for me along the route - ie 50kw or more, at least 2 conenctors and saved them in google maps and, to an extent, planned on the fly (we also had a 3 month old and a 3 year old on board with us, so had other considerations for when we had to stop!!)

 

[5teep]

It's possible that I'm being over-pessimistic here. But I'd rather play it safe the first time I'm doing a trip away from home in winter. I tend to drive fast on the motorway, it will be cold which will reduce range, and I'll have the heater on.

It may be that I'll be pleasantly surprised. But after a trip of just under 100 miles last week which was only partly motorway, I was down to 33%, and when I recharged after that the car was showing only 150 miles of range on the app. I've driven 14 miles in three short trips since then and it's showing 136 miles right now at 87% battery. Put the heater on and that will drop further. I'm seeing 2.2 miles/KWh overall and sometimes only 2.0.

I'll have a lot better idea of the score after this trip of course, but I don't want to be caught out in the Cumbrian moors two days before Christmas with stroppy cat in the car.

Maybe I will get 130 miles, but I'd rather work to a range of 100 miles for safety until I get a bit more experience and a better handle on it.

I'm not bothered by this at all or I would have bought the LR and gone all the way on a single charge. I thought about it while I was in the showroom and the dealer was trying to persuade me to do that! But I decided it wasn't worth it for only a handful of trips a year, when I wouldn't be in a hurry anyway. (My red line was that journey of nearly 100 miles I did last week, and which I do often in winter, which seems to be fine. It only uses 53% of the battery in summer. And since I got the car I have discovered that the car park I use in Glasgow has destination chargers so I really have no worries there.)

I would be completely relaxed about this trip and happy to stop for a while at Booth's either in Penrith or Kirkby Lonsdale, except for the date. I had originally planned to travel on the Thursday and beat the rush, but I rashly volunteered to do something at a Christmas concert on the Friday and now I'm panicking about huge queues at chargers and how best to play it.





Actually the only Tesla chargers on my route are at Tebay, and they're not open. No wonder, because that was the scene of the infamous queueing Teslas incident last Christmas Eve, and there are no other EV chargers at that service station. (There are some being installed but they're not operational yet.)

I go A701, M74, M6, A65. Beyond Gretna the motorway service stations have nothing but a couple of 50 Kw Gridserves each, if that, and while I've found them to be OK midweek in summer I wouldn't go near them the Saturday before Christmas. There are probably EV drivers around who are naïve enough to do that, and they're bound to be trouble.

Realistically I think that Gretna, the Carlisle Ionitys and Booth's at Penrith are the realistic options. I think the reports of the queues of Teslas at Tebay last Christmas Eve are spooking me. If it was that bad for Tesla drivers, what's it like for us plebs? So I'm seeking advice from people with Christmas driving experience.



Battery pre-heat. Any advice? People are generally saying it's not worth it because you lose so much range doing the heating.

The thing is, there's not actually any point in trying to spin out the range unless I find myself in a sticky situation. I'll have to stop, the question is, how to strategise it so as to avoid getting into a sticky situation in the first place. And how to avoid spending ages queueing for two chargers.

I'm thinking at the moment that I should check on ZapMaps if the Penrith Instavolts are operational, and if they are, just go there, prepared to queue. Maybe calm my driving down a bit in case something drastic happens and I have to go on to Kirkby Lonsdale. I feel more confident about Kirkby Lonsdale because there are four chargers, not just two, and it's over five miles from the motorway (logical reasons), and I've charged there before with no problem (illogical reason). But I'm really not happy about the 131 miles part.

If it's below zero you should get 140-150 miles range, every degree above zero gets you further, 10c should allow 200 miles, this is on my driving style of course.

I don't know what your route will be but there are rapid chargers at Abington north of Gretna and don't forget supermarkets, e.g. most bigger Tescos have rapids now that take contactless.

 

[Grriff]

@Rolfe You mentioned using ZapMaps. I'm finding ZapMap is not picking up as many chargers as Elecroverse, but make sure 'Partnered with Electroverse' is turned off.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes it's all part of the conundrum!! My instinct is that the chargers just off the motorway (like Booths Penrith) are less likely to see queues than those at services, but I'd prefer a shot at a bank of 12 like you refer to at Carlisle! But then 23/12is likely to be busy enough at Booths - you may find the chargers ICED!

If I were you I'd probably want to know there was an option later in the trip anyway - what if it's really cold so you need heaters on and there is a crash that holds you up on the motorway etc?

When planning our trip from W Yorks to Brittany I made a note of all the charging stops that worked for me along the route - ie 50kw or more, at least 2 conenctors and saved them in google maps and, to an extent, planned on the fly (we also had a 3 month old and a 3 year old on board with us, so had other considerations for when we had to stop!!)

I don't hugely care if a charger at Booth's is ICEd-up. People shopping in a supermarket don't usually park there for ages, and they can come out to the sharp edge of my tongue when they're done. I'm more worried about a queue of perfectly legitimate EV owners waiting for a charge.

Penrith is 95 miles into my journey. I think I should get there with the heater on (in fact it is my intention to have the heater on), and indeed if there is a hold-up. If there is a diversion then all bets are off, but again I shouldn't be cutting it too fine. It's then 92 miles to my destination, and ditto. That's why I favour Penrith, because it gives two very safe legs to the journey, if only I can get on the charger and get a good charge there.

If it's below zero you should get 140-150 miles range, every degree above zero gets you further, 10c should allow 200 miles, this is on my driving style of course.

I don't know what your route will be but there are rapid chargers at Abington north of Gretna and don't forget supermarkets, e.g. most bigger Tescos have rapids now that take contactless.

What car are you talking about? The MG4 SE SR wouldn't manage that on a bet, with its LFP battery. My car was only showing 150 miles from a full charge after an outing which was 7 degrees on the way out and 5 degrees on the way back.

Abington is only 20 miles into my journey. It's way way too soon to stop. Even Gretna is arguably too soon. I'm looking on ZapMaps for every possibility, but it seems mainly to be Booth's that have the supermarket chargers in the area I'm interested in, which is sort of Carlisle to Penrith.

I am genuinely shocked that you don't think the SR will get 131 miles in winter. I didn't realise the range of the LFP was that compromised. It has quite put me off going that route in the future.

I was thinking further about this comment. I don't know how I was aware of this before I bought my car, but I was. I first heard of the MG4 while watching YouTube videos about EVs on the evening of 31st March. By the time I got to the showroom for my test drive on 8th April I'd soaked up quite a bit of information, including the loss of range in winter. I remember saying to the salesman that my red line was 100 miles at motorway speeds in the depths of a freezing winter night, and he looked slightly taken aback and said yes, should be OK.

I did actually think, well if you got the LR you could get to Halifax without a charging stop, but then decided it wasn't worth it for a couple of visits a year. It's not the stop that's worrying me, it's the fact that I have to do it on such a busy day, when my original intention was to do it two days earlier and avoid the Christmas rush.

But indeed, if that sort of range in the depths of winter (going fast on a motorway with the heater on, mind) is a problem for you, don't go for the SR. Better to know in advance.

 

[tkmaxx5]

I don't hugely care if a charger at Booth's is ICEd-up. People shopping in a supermarket don't usually park there for ages, and they can come out to the sharp edge of my tongue when they're done. I'm more worried about a queue of perfectly legitimate EV owners waiting for a charge.

Penrith is 95 miles into my journey. I think I should get there with the heater on, in fact it is my intention to have the heater on, and indeed if there is a hold-up. If there is a diversion then all bets are off, but again I shouldn't be cutting it too fine. It's then 92 miles to my destination, and ditto. That's why I favour Penrith, because it gives two very safe legs to the journey, if only I can get on the charger and get a good charge there.

You've obviously not seen my mother doing her pre-Christmas BIG shop!!

I'm sure you'll be fine. I think the main thing is allowing yourself the luxury of accepting a moderate delay if you need to wait for a connector to become available. How long you're happy with is a matter of personal preference of course.

You can also keep an eye on the status as your journey progresses with the real-time status updates on ZapMap, Electroverse etc which at least shows regular churn of occupants which I found reassuring. We drove on one of the busiest Saturdays in August in France and chargers were busy but only needed one wait of 10 mins or so which felt a bit frustrating at the time but made little difference in the grand scheme

 

[Rolfe]

Well, that's a fair point about the Big Christmas Shop. (I wonder if Booth's would tannoy for a driver to come and remove their car from the EV charging bay?!)

I intend to leave early enough to allow for a reasonable wait for a charger. I don't think it's reasonable to expect to get right on where you want on that date. I don't mind ten or 15 minutes in the slightest, I just don't want to have to wait ages, with a stroppy cat in the car, or worse, to find that I can't get a charge where I need it.

I was looking at charger reviews on PlugShare, and there's a note from an MG4 driver at the Tebay northbound service station saying he'd waited two and a half hours for a charge there on 10th September. Anyone we know? I wouldn't go there, because there are only three CCS 50 Kw connectors to serve both sides of the motorway (southbound is Tesla-only). I just wonder what made him decide to wait and not go on somewhere else? Unless he'd let himself get too low, but Tebay certainly isn't somewhere I'd want to arrive at without enough to go on.

I'm trying to avoid being so clever that I end up charging twice, and so potentially giving myself two queues to wait in. But on the other hand, Carlisle has its attractions - twelve of them!

I certainly intend to monitor the chargers in real time as I drive. I'll at least be reassured that the Booth's chargers are operational if I decide to go straight there, so it will only be a matter of waiting. These Instavolts seem pretty reliable though. In contrast the single Geniepoint at Morrison's across the road seems to be permanently out of order.