Disabling built in SIM

[DerekH]

Given the recent US articles where car manufacturers are now supplying vehicle data to insurance companies and it is having a real impact on a persons premiums (speed, braking, mileage etc). I was wondering if there is a way to disable the in car sim which I assume is the way vehicle data makes its way back to MG. Yep I realise that some features via phone app would be impacted but would be nice to be able to toggle it on and off in some way.

 

[Burgo]

I don't get why anyone would want to withhold data like that, unless they want to drive like a nutter but don't want the car to relay that to anyone in case it impacts their insurance premium?

 

[Vingnut]

I don't get why anyone would want to withhold data like that, unless they want to drive like a nutter but don't want the car to relay that to anyone in case it impacts their insurance premium?

I do not get that anyone would share their data regardless of the driving, it's a matter of privacy.

 

[DerekH]

@Burgo - Its my data so I should choose what and who to share it with.. You don't need to drive like a nutter for the information that a car company is now sharing to data mining companies to be misused or misinterpreted. Some manufacturers are providing this data and its making its way to insurers. If they see general trend patterns of car makes, that may affect your next insurance premium. Don't just think your data but consolidated data. I am seeing a lot of UK posts of massive insurance premium jumps. Not yet occurred here in Australia. Take a load of phantom braking data across a car make or model (Jaguar as an example) and watch insurers react or actually decline to insure. Without you knowing why your personal premium has jumped, it could be that your average travelled miles is higher than others so your risk increase (hrs on the road etc). Your vehicle may be insured in a covered garage but GPS data shows it gets parked a few nights a week on a roadside (visiting a friend say), potential premium hike as risk increases over a year. Data is very powerful but can be misused in so many ways in the wrong hands or for the wrong reasons (think targeted theft if vehicle locations are known by the wrong people). I have no issue with the data being utilised by a car maker to improve customer experience or product. The issue is the on selling of your data to third parties that you didn't consent to, didn't know you had consented to and to companies that you don't know what they then do with your data. Data is worth money. Where there is money to be made your data will pass to a number of places and be used in ways you may never have even yet considered.... its a slippery slope

 

[Tuareg]

Surely if data such as parking outside a garage instead of inside a garage as specified on an insurance declaration or if you have higher mileage than average is recorded, it shows your risk profile is higher and so your premium should also be higher. Otherwise others insured with lower risk profiles will be subsidising those with higher risk profiles. What next, insurance companies not being allowed to know about speeding and drink/drug driving penalties?

 

[leonkernan]

There's a data switch in the settings. Not agreeing to the iSmart license agreement should do it.

But China being China, I'd expect there's still telemetry you can't turn off or see.

 

[DerekH]

There's a data switch in the settings. Not agreeing to the iSmart license agreement should do it.

But China being China, I'd expect there's still telemetry you can't turn off or see.

Thanks that may be a start just not sure what disabling would affect in terms of the functionality when driving? not super clear is it. I will try and see what it obviously disables. Whos to say if it still sends some data.ahh

Surely if data such as parking outside a garage instead of inside a garage as specified on an insurance declaration or if you have higher mileage than average is recorded, it shows your risk profile is higher and so your premium should also be higher. Otherwise others insured with lower risk profiles will be subsidising those with higher risk profiles. What next, insurance companies not being allowed to know about speeding and drink/drug driving penalties?

I think you have actually missed my point entirely

 

[Tuareg]

Not at all, here is what you said:

"Without you knowing why your personal premium has jumped, it could be that your average travelled miles is higher than others so your risk increase (hrs on the road etc). Your vehicle may be insured in a covered garage but GPS data shows it gets parked a few nights a week on a roadside (visiting a friend say), potential premium hike as risk increases over a year."

Higher risk should lead to higher premium. Without that data, the higher risk and rekated higher claims will be subsidised by those with lower risk, making their premiums higher than their risk profiles dictate.

Additionally, this much overplayed 'talk' of China monitoring everything people are doing in the west is simply rubbish and much of this 'fear' is pushed by your own politicians to suit their own careers. Otherwise, don't buy or avoid Chinese products, simple.

 

[Burgo]

I see your point and agree with parts of it, but personally I don't think anyone has got a chance of resisting this in the medium to long term.
The reason is that you are paying, say, 500 for fully comprehensive insurance on a 23k car.

You run off the road taking a 30 limit corner after a straight bit of 60 limit road putting two wheels down a ditch causing underbody damage and hit a utility pole stuffing the front and firing the airbags. The car is a write off.
You plead that you were doing round about 30 and hit black ice / spilt diesel / slippery wet compacted leaves / swerved to miss a kid / etc. Insurance company loses a lot of money.

Telemetry could tell that you were doing 105 on the 60 limit straight and took the corner at 65. You lose a lot of money.

Imo if there's any way at all they can use that data then they will - and to be fair why not? They're risking a full payout for a relatively small premium.

It's like a black box in an aircraft. Not only does it provide evidence of what was happening; it also acts as a pair of eyes watching over you. As a result you operate the aircraft within its operational parameters - or you'll be found out. It may not be a bad thing in cars. If you're found to have been speeding or otherwise hooning around (ie doughnuts, burnouts, etc) then no payment. It could well lead to a reduction in accidents. And a lowering of premiums? I should coco!!

 

[tsedge]

Both of you have good points.

Personally, while I dislike the loss of freedom and the data held about me, I can't argue with the fact that if insurers can distinguish between driving styles it would:

a) Significantly reduce my premiums, because I drive within the limit at all times and smoothly and carefully.

b) Force people to drive better or not be able to continue to afford the premiums, which I'd be strongly in favour of.

I'd love it if the insurers could view the in-car footage, that would stop people tailgating me and cutting me up.

 

[Jeroen]

Fortunately most of us in Europe have the benefit of the European privacy laws which dictate that we have to give explicit consent for use of telemetry data by third parties. Opposed to the US where that would be an opt-out.

Mind though that by accepting the insurance policy you could very well be giving the explicit consent required by EU law or it could even be a justIfied use depending on the specifics of the contract, e.g. being eligible for a discount based on the way someone drives.

In the Netherlands at least the ANWB has the option for a discount (or surplus) of you share your telemetry with them.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

If only George Orwell was still alive, 1984 the sequel would be a cracker!

 

[Archev]

If only George Orwell was still alive, 1984 the sequel would be a cracker!

Aye but seriously what would he have thought - if he’d been allowed to.

 

[KH11]

Not at all, here is what you said:

"Without you knowing why your personal premium has jumped, it could be that your average travelled miles is higher than others so your risk increase (hrs on the road etc). Your vehicle may be insured in a covered garage but GPS data shows it gets parked a few nights a week on a roadside (visiting a friend say), potential premium hike as risk increases over a year."

Higher risk should lead to higher premium. Without that data, the higher risk and rekated higher claims will be subsidised by those with lower risk, making their premiums higher than their risk profiles dictate.

Additionally, this much overplayed 'talk' of China monitoring everything people are doing in the west is simply rubbish and much of this 'fear' is pushed by your own politicians to suit their own careers. Otherwise, don't buy or avoid Chinese products, simple.

That might be a bit difficult as a lot of the most popular cars have some Chinese involvement even the Tesla.

Then look at other Tech as well like the IPhone has Chinese involvement.

 

[Tuareg]

I don't have any issues with China or the products manufactured there. I have a fully manufactured Chinese PV system, it's fantastic and saves me a fortune on bills, electricity is only €30 for a 2 month period for a 5 bed detached house with a pool pump running 6 hours a day. I'm buying a Chinese manufactured car and buy lots of things from Chinese Aliexpress. I'm sure they have zero interest in me personally but if a manufacturer like MG wants to collect data on how a car is being used to help it develop its products further (very much the most probable action) then that's excellent. I don't buy into the 'nasty Chinese monitoring all of us' story as I'm convinced that's just a smoke screen by 'western' governments simply because western 'companies' simply can't compete with the pricing and quality of what's now coming out of China.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

Aye but seriously what would he have thought- if he’d been allowed to

I think he had already highlighted the links between Communism and Dictatorships , rampant consumerism and Capitalism would be next on his imaginations . Where's there's muck there`s brass , as they say . I think the OP is saying that his personal data belongs to himself, and is not for sale by any third party no matter their good or innocuous intentions in collecting it in the first place. Whilst there are privacy laws in place to protect (ha ha ) against unwarranted intrusion, once we click on the "agree" button ( google maps eg) do we accept that in return for their services they now own that data and can do what they want with it. ?

 

[Deleted member 14300]

Here's a thought re telemetry data, what if the car could be switched off remotely?
It'll be easier to find its antenna and obstruct it. The SIM will be an eSim. I wonder where the modem lives?

 

[MSvirus]

Like the insurance companies will reduce the insurance price for good driving... This is just another way to earn more money by increasing the premium to drivers that they mean is driving bad. And the problem with that is that they can then dictate what is good and bad driving, to suit them self. If they wish they can label all driving bad, and just parking the car as good.

 

[Ian Key]

If you worry about the Chinese selling your driving style and location to the insurance companies I hope you also turn off your phone. Apple and Google have been tracking you for years via your phone and can do so even if you have location turned off via the phone masts. How else do you think Google maps know the speed and how much traffic there is at each point of the road network.