Driving mode understanding

[hermitdave]

Well i never..and they say you learn something new every day.
I certainly have..being old makes me think ideas are old fashioned ones..and batteries are the same as they always were..or maybe too much false info that i copied.
My apologies old chap..

We have come a long way with battery recycling.. a few years ago I was looking for used / thrown laptop batteries. By legislation, computer service companies are required to dispose them to a Metal recyclers - even transporting those require Hazardous waste license here in the UK.

Every manufacturer is also legally obliged to accept used batteries.. any batteries.

I was told that I could buy it off a Metal Recycling company £7 / kg as that is their value. These were laptop batteries for building my own energy storage system.

Nissan / Jaguar etc have their own Energy storage projects and the batteries they replace goes into the project. They even offer you a grand to take it off your hands.
Heck I know a few people who buy EVs so they can take the battery for storage usage and sells the parts. Even I have looked at various Phev battery pack from breakers to build my own but lack of garage stops me from doing anything meaningful.

Now if we talk about the 12V Lead acid batteries - you might be thinking of those.. Lead being poisonous and all. No one wanted to touch those.. Even those are required to be recycled / disposed correctly. Our local recycling center collects those and is sent off to Metal recyclers

 

[ajw1100]

Just got back from a trip to Cheshire, car not run in yet and still about 300 to go so my trip was driven nicely, not like I stole it.....!
We traveled 445 miles in total, filled up before we left and had 32miles of EV showing,
On return there were 0 EV miles showing.
While away we needed to fuel in order to have enough to get back and I returned the tank to full again this morning.
The car reckons we did 42 mpg and averaged 36mph according to my mpg link the actual mpg was 34.19 having used 59.17L of fuel and 32 miles of EV, remove the EV and it works out at 31.7mpg.
I think that goes to show what a very thirsty engine the car has, my previous Octavia on a similar trip would return 50+ mpg and that had a 1.4 petrol with DSG.
A similar trip in my wife's new MH Kona returned over 60mpg.

I reckon we will use hers for long trips and the HS for running around locally.

 

[Truckyboy]

We have come a long way with battery recycling.. a few years ago I was looking for used / thrown laptop batteries. By legislation, computer service companies are required to dispose them to a Metal recyclers - even transporting those require Hazardous waste license here in the UK.

Every manufacturer is also legally obliged to accept used batteries.. any batteries.

I was told that I could buy it off a Metal Recycling company £7 / kg as that is their value. These were laptop batteries for building my own energy storage system.

Nissan / Jaguar etc have their own Energy storage projects and the batteries they replace goes into the project. They even offer you a grand to take it off your hands.
Heck I know a few people who buy EVs so they can take the battery for storage usage and sells the parts. Even I have looked at various Phev battery pack from breakers to build my own but lack of garage stops me from doing anything meaningful.

Now if we talk about the 12V Lead acid batteries - you might be thinking of those.. Lead being poisonous and all. No one wanted to touch those.. Even those are required to be recycled / disposed correctly. Our local recycling center collects those and is sent off to Metal recyclers

Even supermarkets used to recycle used batteries..now there are no bins to take them..so i send them to landfill..shame as i do like to do my bit...and yes i was thinking of the old lead type..plus for positive..minus for negative.

 

[Truckyboy]

Just got back from a trip to Cheshire, car not run in yet and still about 300 to go so my trip was driven nicely, not like I stole it.....!
We traveled 445 miles in total, filled up before we left and had 32miles of EV showing,
On return there were 0 EV miles showing.
While away we needed to fuel in order to have enough to get back and I returned the tank to full again this morning.
The car reckons we did 42 mpg and averaged 36mph according to my mpg link the actual mpg was 34.19 having used 59.17L of fuel and 32 miles of EV, remove the EV and it works out at 31.7mpg.
I think that goes to show what a very thirsty engine the car has, my previous Octavia on a similar trip would return 50+ mpg and that had a 1.4 petrol with DSG.
A similar trip in my wife's new MH Kona returned over 60mpg.

I reckon we will use hers for long trips and the HS for running around locally.

Wow..my 3 ltr merc averaged 49mpg..hope the HS 1.5 turbo petrol get somewhere near that.

 

[hermitdave]

@ajw1100 @Truckyboy the problem comes with the shape. Smaller engine never equates to more efficient.
The profile of the car means it takes aerodynamic hit. That said Petrol Automatic ford focus barely gave 30mpg. Honda Jazz hybrid would manage 50-60 but it was a small car.
Outlander was 40 mpg on a good day..

 

[Truckyboy]

@ajw1100 @Truckyboy the problem comes with the shape. Smaller engine never equates to more efficient.
The profile of the car means it takes aerodynamic hit. That said Petrol Automatic ford focus barely gave 30mpg. Honda Jazz hybrid would manage 50-60 but it was a small car.
Outlander was 40 mpg on a good day..

Wow ford focus fayred badly..only 30mpg...my ol merc was an E320 CDI..and averaged around 49..

 

[hermitdave]

Wow ford focus fayred badly..only 30mpg...my ol merc was an E320 CDI..and averaged around 49..

that's
a) Petrol engine
b) Auto gearbox

I have a Peugot 206 for a few years and that was like 50 mpg.
Also had a Zafira Diesel automatic.. 40 mpg.

In between had Merc 220C Blutec and that was 70 mpg.
Diesel has higher energy density so you burn less to generate same amount of power.

 

[Lovemyev]

Just got back from a trip to Cheshire, car not run in yet and still about 300 to go so my trip was driven nicely, not like I stole it.....!
We traveled 445 miles in total, filled up before we left and had 32miles of EV showing,
On return there were 0 EV miles showing.
While away we needed to fuel in order to have enough to get back and I returned the tank to full again this morning.
The car reckons we did 42 mpg and averaged 36mph according to my mpg link the actual mpg was 34.19 having used 59.17L of fuel and 32 miles of EV, remove the EV and it works out at 31.7mpg.
I think that goes to show what a very thirsty engine the car has, my previous Octavia on a similar trip would return 50+ mpg and that had a 1.4 petrol with DSG.
A similar trip in my wife's new MH Kona returned over 60mpg.

I reckon we will use hers for long trips and the HS for running around locally.

To be honest, long trips in a PHEV are never very economical.
I owned a VW PHEV for over four years and good fuel economy is better achieved when you can charge the battery as must as possible ( nightly ) and make many smaller trips in pure EV mode.
Slightly longer trips using EV mode for local low speed stuff, then saving the EV range for later in the journey.
Anything above 45 Mph and using EV mode will consumer the limited battery range very quickly.
Mixing the drive mode to the type of roads etc is very important.
When all of the EV power has gone, you have to remember that you are pulling around a very heavy car with what is a very small 1.5 Litre engine.
So, fuel economy is going to take a real bashing I am afraid !.
PHEV's fit into a certain usage case, repeated long journeys in a PHEV with no EV range remaining, is not going to provide you with good MPG returns.
Your example proves this theory to be correct.
In this situation, a diesel would have been more economical.
In my case, I would regularly see around 75 - 85 Mpg on a full tank of fuel over a few weeks.
The most I ever achieved on a full tank of fuel ( and charging almost every evening ) was correct average of 105 Mpg.
This was over about two to three weeks.
PHEV's really can be more economical than a straight ICE vehicle, but you have be charging almost every day.
Factoring in the premium price you pay for the car in the first place is also important.
I firmly believe most people ( like myself ) who wanted to try electric, will go PHEV first because of the fear of getting stranded with no electric range left in the HV battery and breaking down.
Therefore a PHEV just feels like a safer option, because it prevents range anxiety.
This is totally correct of course, but returns on economy is where you pay the price.
After four years of driving a PHEV with part EV, we decided to go full BEV IN 2019.
The same rules apply's here.
IF a BEV fits you usage case, then the running costs beats a PHEV completely hands down.
We managed to cover almost 20,000 miles ( with four lock down's in Wales ) in just over two years of ownership.
After two years of driving the BEV we then decided to upgrade to another BEV with much larger battery.
Giving us a range more comparable with a ICE model.

 

[Truckyboy]

To be honest, long trips in a PHEV are never very economical.
I owned a VW PHEV for over four years and good fuel economy is better achieved when you can charge the battery as must as possible ( nightly ) and make many smaller trips in pure EV mode.
Slightly longer trips using EV mode for local low speed stuff, then saving the EV range for later in the journey.
Anything above 45 Mph and using EV mode will consumer the limited battery range very quickly.
Mixing the drive mode to the type of roads etc is very important.
When all of the EV power has gone, you have to remember that you are pulling around a very heavy car with what is a very small 1.5 Litre engine.
So, fuel economy is going to take a real bashing I am afraid !.
PHEV's fit into a certain usage case, repeated long journeys in a PHEV with no EV range remaining, is not going to provide you with good MPG returns.
Your example proves this theory to be correct.
In this situation, a diesel would have been more economical.
In my case, I would regularly see around 75 - 85 Mpg on a full tank of fuel over a few weeks.
The most I ever achieved on a full tank of fuel ( and charging almost every evening ) was correct average of 105 Mpg.
This was over about two to three weeks.
PHEV's really can be more economical than a straight ICE vehicle, but you have be charging almost every day.
Factoring in the premium price you pay for the car in the first place is also important.
I firmly believe most people ( like myself ) who wanted to try electric, will go PHEV first because of the fear of getting stranded with no electric range left in the HV battery and breaking down.
Therefore a PHEV just feels like a safer option, because it prevents range anxiety.
This is totally correct of course, but returns on economy is where you pay the price.
After four years of driving a PHEV with part EV, we decided to go full BEV IN 2019.
The same rules apply's here.
IF a BEV fits you usage case, then the running costs beats a PHEV completely hands down.
We managed to cover almost 20,000 miles ( with four lock down's in Wales ) in just over two years of ownership.
After two years of driving the BEV we then decided to upgrade to another BEV with much larger battery.
Giving us a range more comparable with a ICE model.

Very interesting reading..thanks for that..i didnt choose an EV..because if my trips to bulgaria..believe it will inconvenience me greatly..with the stops..plus the lack if charging facilities....if my HS averages around the 30 mark..that will suffice.
Btw my merc was a diesel..sadly MG doesnt offer one.

 

[hermitdave]

Very interesting reading..thanks for that..i didnt choose an EV..because if my trips to bulgaria..believe it will inconvenience me greatly..with the stops..plus the lack if charging facilities....if my HS averages around the 30 mark..that will suffice.
Btw my merc was a diesel..sadly MG doesnt offer one.

Diesels are past their sell by date. Manufacturers cheated to win emissions rating and newer targets means there’s no going back.

Only ones still making Diesels are Merc, BMW and Range Rovers.. at least the ones I see on road.

My Phev manages 40+ mpg!! So probably different driving styles and used of regen / diversion of excess power

 

[Truckyboy]

Thank you..still awaiting my delivery
Was supposed to be june..now extended to august..so gonna fly over this year..

 

[Jto]

Just got back from a trip to Cheshire, car not run in yet and still about 300 to go so my trip was driven nicely, not like I stole it.....!
We traveled 445 miles in total, filled up before we left and had 32miles of EV showing,
On return there were 0 EV miles showing.
While away we needed to fuel in order to have enough to get back and I returned the tank to full again this morning.
The car reckons we did 42 mpg and averaged 36mph according to my mpg link the actual mpg was 34.19 having used 59.17L of fuel and 32 miles of EV, remove the EV and it works out at 31.7mpg.
I think that goes to show what a very thirsty engine the car has, my previous Octavia on a similar trip would return 50+ mpg and that had a 1.4 petrol with DSG.
A similar trip in my wife's new MH Kona returned over 60mpg.

I reckon we will use hers for long trips and the HS for running around locally.

Hi A
i would have taken the granny charger and a good extension lead if you could charge at the place you stay. If not able there would have looked around if there was a charge station you could use which would have helped.

 

[hermitdave]

Hi A
i would have taken the granny charger and a good extension lead if you could charge at the place you stay. If not able there would have looked around if there was a charge station you could use which would have helped.

I was in Cardiff over the weekend and had the type 2 cable. Was suprised to see charge points at Novotel. However they were only recently installed and not activated yet. I couldn't be bothered driving a few miles on petrol to plug the car in at Pod Points.. most charge points in the city were BP Chargemaster.

 

[Truckyboy]

Hi A
i would have taken the granny charger and a good extension lead if you could charge at the place you stay. If not able there would have looked around if there was a charge station you could use which would have helped.

Maybe true in western europe..but Serbia..Romania..Bulgaria not quite up to date...

 

[Truckyboy]

Another piece i read this morning i found interesting.
To get the electric to charge an EV
the power stations will need ti run on OIL and or COAL..both harmful to the planet..so the protestors are saying...and considering the govt want only EV vehicles by 2025.
Again to please climate protestors
Thats an awful lot of oil/coal to pollute the atmosphere...yet China is a big polluter..India is a big Polluter..America is a big Polluter
And just those three..are a lot closer to the Arctic Circle than us..so our contribution will make little difference...so glad i ordered a Petrol engine.

 

[Alb]

As this has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread subject I think I'll close.