Have you noticed fuel prices going up

[PeterHR2]

Yes, this is 100% price gouging.

I don't doubt there is an element of profiteering, but the truth is that UK and European kerosene price is linked to jet fuel price and because the UK (and Europe) has limited storage and reduced refinery capacity (two closed in UK last year) and most oil companies are small, family-owned businesses with little or no storage capacity of their own and so they and we are at the mercy of the Eurozone kerosene spot price. And most of the UK's and Europe's kerosene is currently stuck the wrong side of the Strait of Hormuz and refineries in the Gulf are cutting back on production (for understandable reasons).

 

[Gomev]

I don't doubt there is an element of profiteering, but the truth is that UK and European kerosene price is linked to jet fuel price and because the UK (and Europe) has limited storage and reduced refinery capacity (two closed in UK last year) and most oil companies are small, family-owned businesses with little or no storage capacity of their own and so they and we are at the mercy of the Eurozone kerosene spot price. And most of the UK's and Europe's kerosene is currently stuck the wrong side of the Strait of Hormuz and refineries in the Gulf are cutting back on production (for understandable reasons).

You have explained the system well, however there appears to be clear profiteering/gouging going on and not just an element of. If as shown above they were able to deliver 'tomorrow' that is not from fuel stuck the other side of the gulf, nor is it from anything that wasn't already in the UK or Europe.

 

[salty]

You have explained the system well, however there appears to be clear profiteering/gouging going on and not just an element of. If as shown above they were able to deliver 'tomorrow' that is not from fuel stuck the other side of the gulf, nor is it from anything that wasn't already in the UK or Europe.

Agree. They are cashing in, simple's.
And it's wrong.
But can you really, blame them?

 

[Gomev]

Agree. They are cashing in, simple's.
And it's wrong.
But can you really, blame them?

Yes.

 

[salty]

Yes.

Ok.

 

[PeterHR2]

You have explained the system well, however there appears to be clear profiteering/gouging going on and not just an element of. If as shown above they were able to deliver 'tomorrow' that is not from fuel stuck the other side of the gulf, nor is it from anything that wasn't already in the UK or Europe.

The point is that yesterday they were not able to deliver 'tomorrow' or for the foreseeable future. That points to a lack of supply, either of the kerosene itself – perhaps because it's promised elsewhere to buyers with deeper pockets and/or airtight delivery contracts (i.e. airline companies) – and/or the diesel to fuel the delivery vehicles is in short supply (my local garage ran out yesterday evening before their self-imposed rationing could kick in), or there is an unwillingness on the local heating oil delivery buyers to buy fuel at the spot price in the almost certain knowledge that some people (me for instance) will not pay the price they are asking for it and so they are potentially sitting on a loss.

The next argument is likely something like 'it always goes up quickly but comes down more slowly'. And there is truth in that aphorism: search 'commodities rockets and feathers and futures contracts' to understand why that may be.

I understand the cynicism (I do), but I say: provide the proof of wrongdoing.

EDIT: I note that oil prices have dropped sharply this morning. So things will be a little less frantic over the next day or two, or at least they will until the Orange one opens his mouth again on X/Truth Social or Faux News to contradict what he said last night.

 

[decrep]

Topped up the surf wagon with 95 this arvo, on way to beach, $2.07 a liter, service station not crowded

 

[Gomev]

The point is that yesterday they were not able to deliver 'tomorrow' or for the foreseeable future....

I understand the cynicism (I do), but I say: provide the proof of wrongdoing.

EDIT: I note that oil prices have dropped sharply this morning. So things will be a little less frantic over the next day or two, or at least they will until the Orange one opens his mouth again on X/Truth Social or Faux News to contradict what he said last night.

See post #12 in this thread on Thursday 5th where there was a quote for next day and other days delivery with next day most expensive and cheaper as the date goes out. So there is the proof that they had the stock and could price it (expensively) for the forseeable.

You seem to know the trade well, do you have any connection to the trade ?

Post in thread 'Have you noticed fuel prices going up'

Thursday at 6:34 PM

I checked Boilerjuice this morning for 1000 litres:

• Alb

• 

 

[T1 Terry]

See post #12 in this thread on Thursday 5th where there was a quote for next day and other days delivery with next day most expensive and cheaper as the date goes out. So there is the proof that they had the stock and could price it (expensively) for the forseeable.

You seem to know the trade well, do you have any connection to the trade ?

Post in thread 'Have you noticed fuel prices going up'

Thursday at 6:34 PM

I checked Boilerjuice this morning for 1000 litres:

• Alb

• 

The logic of this pricing method is supply as much as you want immediately if you are willing to pay, 4 days later, you can buy it cheaper .... if there is any still available .... if it all sells out in the first few days, you didn't save anything really, you will now be at the mercy of those who really will price gouge ..... either pay or figure out an alternative for heating and quite possibly cooking and hot water ..... that heat pump and induction cooktop might have been a clever choice after all ......
You can then spend up and buy batteries and solar etc ..... but you have invested in a future price shock resistant system ..... the heating oil is money gone up in smoke .....

T1 Terry

 

[T1 Terry]

I was in the big city today, just about every service station was selling at the same price, $2.20ltr for 91 octane and just about P.O.A for the higher octane, and diesel was $2.40ltr ..... so no big cues at the bowsers, you were going to pay the same no matter where you bought fuel .....

It felt really good to drive from one end of Adelaide to the other and back home, and refuel the MG4 for free
I am dreading when it comes time to refuel the Winnie motorhome, 250 ltrs of petrol will require a prior arrangement with the bank to spend that much in a single transaction, and that will get us maybe 500kms at best, I doubt we would be able to refuel until the next day, the max transaction limit would be exceeded for any 24hr period .....

T1 Terry

 

[PeterHR2]

See post #12 in this thread on Thursday 5th where there was a quote for next day and other days delivery with next day most expensive and cheaper as the date goes out. So there is the proof that they had the stock and could price it (expensively) for the forseeable.

You seem to know the trade well, do you have any connection to the trade ?

No connection with the trade at all. Just a consumer who relies on kerosene being delivered JIT to keep hot water flowing, the kitchen warm and being able to cook.

The timing of the Boilerjuice quote in @Alb's post is critical (Thurs ~6:30pm). On seeing that post originally at around 9 am on the Friday morning the first thing I did was also check Boilerjuice and I initially got similar (higher quotes) with deliveries about a week to a fortnight away. If I'd placed an order at that time I may have expected it to be honoured. Whether it would have been I have my doubts, but I'll never know for sure. Heating oil delivery times are a bit of a movable feast at the best and most passive of times, more often than not arriving a day or two later, as shown by the attached screenshot of an email for my last delivery.**

Then a couple of hours later (just after 11 am Friday) I was going to firm up an order and so rechecked Boilerjuice and from that point Boilerjuice's over 200 sources of kerosene declined to offer quotes for heating oil or its delivery.

Brent crude was about $85 per barrel on Thursday (Why have I switched to Brent crude price rather than kerosene? Because it feeds in to all oil-derived commodities, and so it affects heating oil price and availability) when @Alb got that quote, but when the Asia markets opened Friday morning (about 1 or 2 am UK time) the price immediately jumped to just over $100 per barrel and within another 15-20 minutes had climbed to something like $115 per barrel. And that is the reason why I couldn't get a quote or a delivery. This is how fast this particular market works.

---

**'Resource issues' means either they can't get the kerosene today, their delivery algorithms have rerouted my order to a nearer customer (though some suppliers do indicate the 'order has been rerouted' – Watson's are good on that excuse), or the tanker driver is off ill today.

 

[Gadget Geek]

You have explained the system well, however there appears to be clear profiteering/gouging going on and not just an element of. If as shown above they were able to deliver 'tomorrow' that is not from fuel stuck the other side of the gulf, nor is it from anything that wasn't already in the UK or Europe.

Don't forget, any fuel they sell today, will have to be replaced by fuel which has increased in price. As a buisness, they are going to sell the existing stock they have at the price it will cost them to replace it so as not to take a hit on their profits.

Not saying it's right or fair, it's just buisness.

 

[PeterHR2]

Update on my local filling station: no rationing (yet) as they finally had a delivery yesterday. Petrol is 138.9p/L and diesel is 162.9p/L.

Glad the Disco 3 is in the garage for repair... though I could do with it back to take a few dumpy bags of stuff to the tip/local recycling centre.

 

[salty]

Don't forget, any fuel they sell today, will have to be replaced by fuel which has increased in price. As a buisness, they are going to sell the existing stock they have at the price it will cost them to replace it so as not to take a hit on their profits.

Not saying it's right or fair, it's just buisness.

Agree, never thought of that.

 

[PeterHR2]

The diesel element of their delivery costs has increased something like 13-18% over the last fortnight too. That has to be factored in to any kerosene price.

 

[Roldorf]

Germany: Diesel now €2,16 at Jet €2,17 at Shell. E10 €2,06 Jet €2,07 Shell.

 

[PeterHR2]

Germany: Diesel now €2,16 at Jet €2,17 at Shell. E10 €2,06 Jet €2,07 Shell.

Interesting, the UK/German differential: my filling station's current diesel price (supplied by Murco) would be equivalent to around €1.90.