NMC is still currently the chemistry of choice for long range & performance cars. It delivers. And inspite of early safety concerns caused by mostly faulty Hyundia batteries they have proved to be very safe. Often EV car fires have been caused by major accident damage or short circuits of wiring in the car, not the batteries. Although clearly a small number has been caused by the batteries themselves.
 
. let's hope those readings are wrong and not actual cell voltage, but rather charging voltage .... still :eek:
It’s my understanding that these are actual cell voltages as I read them out using an OBD dongle a few hours after changing completed.

I get the same result if I divide the total HV battery voltage as reported by the car with the number of cells installed..
 
Ummm.... did you see this post?
Is this SoH OK? | MG ZS EV Forum ... let's hope those readings are wrong and not actual cell voltage, but rather charging voltage .... still :eek:

T1 Terry
Terry, 4.2V cell voltage is perfectly normal in our ZS EV's after a full charge to 100% it would appear. It is the voltage that's is at the full mark. The batteries are designed for that voltage. So the MG5 with NMC will be ok with that. Car scanner has shown that voltage on many cars I have tested with my OBD2 reader. I too wondered if that voltage was ok. It seems it is according to my guru. Remember, cell voltage measurements aren't always too precise either.
 
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Remember, cell voltage measurements aren't always too precise either.
Operating a NMC cell outside it’s voltage range can lead to disastrous consequences, therefore one would think that measuring precise values is a must??
 
NMC are no different in the internal resistance issue as LFP, they must be charged to a higher voltage and that settles over time to give a rested voltage.
The Cobalt content is the key difference between the two, Lithium Ferrous Phosphate does not generate oxygen when it gets heated beyond a certain point, the higher the Nickel content, the lower the temperature a fully charged cell starts to produce oxygen as the electrolyte and other materials begin to decompose as low as 70°C
NMC temperature steps to thermal runaway.webp
If the temperature increases to 90°C, the cell becomes it's own heater, at 120°C the electrolyte starts to separate, it only requires another 10°C for the separator material between the two plates to start melting allowing any formed dendrite spikes to penetrate, creating a short between the two plates, serious heat generation now begins and there is no return from this point.

This is all occurs at the electrolyte level, the point where no more Li ions can be stored in the graphite, saturation charged, the excess of lithium ions in the electrolyte start to generate heat.
This is the reason for slowing the charge rate by lowering the current being pushed into the cell as it reaches 100% SOC, there are less spots available for the lithium ions to be stored in the graphite material, a higher than normal % of lithium ions in the electrolyte generates heat.

Can you see the correlation between pushing the cell voltage above the saturated graphite level, meaning that higher voltage is contained in the electrolyte, not stored in the differential between the plates .....
The electrolyte is already hot because it has been switching between over saturation and normal lithium ion concentration as it tries to ram ions into those last remaining spots available.
The electrolyte isn't all in contact with the cell casing, in fact, as the state of charge increases, so does material that makes up the cell plates, the conductor material and separator material also expands with heat, further reducing the electrolyte contact with the outside casing, so this heat is trapped deep inside the plate layers .....

Each time the electrolyte is pushed to the 70*C plus mark, the more dendrite is formed on the plate surfaces, resulting in a higher voltage potential to push the lithium ions through this layer of dendrite and then into the last few spots available to store them ...... this is the internal resistance that can be measured and causes the difference between charging voltage and discharging voltage.

Back to basic physics, we know what the byproduct of passing electricity through a resistor, heat .....

As I posted before, you might get away with it a few times, but the odds against it not going into thermal run away increase each time that electrolyte overheat occurs, hopefully, you can see the mechanics of why that occurs now

T1 Terry
 
NMC are no different in the internal resistance issue as LFP, they must be charged to a higher voltage and that settles over time to give a rested voltage.
Not sure, while NMC cells do have low internal resistance it’s still significantly higher (factor 10, iirc?) than typical LFP specs?

That’s probably why there is little (no?) difference between charge vs settled cell voltage?
As I posted before, you might get away with it a few times, but the odds against it not going into thermal run away increase each time that electrolyte overheat occurs, hopefully, you can see the mechanics of why that occurs now
Low internal resistance helps to minimise heat generation. Even at max AC rates (7kWh) the cells are charged at less than 0.1C and this is further reduced when close to cut-off voltage.

Last but not least, MG is actively cooling the cells (MG5: 10C or ambient, whichever is higher), therefore the risk of ‘electrolyte overheating’ seems insignificant?
 
No one would doubt what you are saying Terry regarding the fire risk processes of the Lithium batteries. It's all freely available info.

However the real world figures PROVE just how safe these batteries are in cars compared to petrol & diesel vehicles. This is widely acknowledged. Here in the UK we now have around 1.9 million EV's on the streets. Every single day in the UK between 305 & 310 petrol & diesels vehicles burst into flames. That's about 111,000 + petrol & diesel vehicles per year. Almost never an EV.

To put things more in context & depending what studies you look at, per 1 million vehicles all causes of fire, 1530 to 1590 petrol & diesel vehicles catch fire & 19 to 24 EV's. It varies by country very slightly due to how safe roads are & how figures are collated. But overwhelmingly EV fires are almost insignificant. The anti EV press of course seems to ignore the facts!

So while we talk & discuss voltages, important as it is, there's no need for anyone to worry.
 
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Probably not, the total supply current divided by the number of cells...
Brain spasm Terry? The cells are in series, so ignoring the bypass resistor current the supply current from the on-board charger is the same as the current through each cell. Ok, I'm also ignoring HV current used by the HVAC system (heater or air conditioner).

In a series connected set of cells, the average cell voltage is the charger output voltage divided by the number of cells.
 
Below are the HV battery specs as per MG's MG5 FL service manual, (type 1&3 are NMC, type 2 is LFP) looks like the upper (cell) limit is a good bit above 4.2V for NMC??
1774726640019.webp
 
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