It Looks Like Speed Assist Systems Are On The Way For NCAP - Perhaps Default On?

That will be another feature to turn off each time you get in the car, as the feature in my MG 4 alway picks up the speed signs on side roads, will not be much fun driving at 50 then it see a 30 on a side road and slows down.
 
I have no objections as long as the systems are reliable.

At the moment, many manufacturers have terrible lane keep assist system implementations that are actually dangerous. Which makes the situation perverse when it's a safety body dealing out stars on the basis of these things existing as a check box.
 
Bodgerx said:
I have no objections as long as the systems are reliable.
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Agreed.

Bodgerx said:
At the moment, many manufacturers have terrible lane keep assist system implementations that are actually dangerous. Which makes the situation perverse when it's a safety body dealing out stars on the basis of these things existing as a check box.
Click to expand...

The safety body believes that the systems will improve safety when they work, and are relying on consumer complaints to make them work once they force them into cars. If people had the option to choose to buy the systems they would, in the main, opt not to and hence they'd never be developed.

dzwilkins said:
That will be another feature to turn off each time you get in the car
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I've realised that I've got old as I am no longer willing to accept this rubbish and will just opt out of buying new cars with these non-working systems.
 
Bodgerx said:
I have no objections as long as the systems are reliable.

At the moment, many manufacturers have terrible lane keep assist system implementations that are actually dangerous. Which makes the situation perverse when it's a safety body dealing out stars on the basis of these things existing as a check box.
Click to expand...
The systems will remain terrible for years pending improvements in AI. Possibly Tesla will get there first, but it is an incredibly hard problem to solve and the best most of us can probably lobby for is a single button to switch to our preferred settings - sadly I would expect NCAP would veto that (if they haven't already) on the grounds that you are not explicitly choosing to disable each safety system in turn.

This nannying of drivers actually reduces skills, encourages people not to pay attention because the car will "fix it". True self driving will address that but it is still many years away.
 
BugEyed said:
Agreed.



The safety body believes that the systems will improve safety when they work, and are relying on consumer complaints to make them work once they force them into cars. If people had the option to choose to buy the systems they would, in the main, opt not to and hence they'd never be developed.



I've realised that I've got old as I am no longer willing to accept this rubbish and will just opt out of buying new cars with these non-working systems.
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tsedge said:
I also wonder if they will ask manufacturers to retrospectively add features like this via updates?
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They can ask, but NCAP is a voluntary thing. Manufacturers use it to benchmark against a standard, pick up the stars and use it to sell cars. NCAP can't dictate, they measure/test and make recommendations.

It would have to be mandated by VoSA or something and that's not going to happen until someone conclusively proves something is dangerous.
 
I wonder if customers would actually buy cars that were not NCAP 5 star, very safe in crash tests, but downgraded because for example LKA wasn’t included? I bet that they would!
 
Cocijo said:
I wonder if customers would actually buy cars that were not NCAP 5 star, very safe in crash tests, but downgraded because for example LKA wasn’t included? I bet that they would!
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I would, but then I know enough to be able to tell the difference between a genuinely unsafe car and one that just doesn't comply with NCAP. I highly doubt most people would and to them, NCAP = Is my car safe? The monopoly effectively mandates compliance because most manufacturers can't afford not to score highly.

Interesting though that the Zoe (I think) deliberately dropped NCAP compliance to reduce the cost (on one model I think - might have the wrong car). I suppose at the value end of the market (which is where MG is really), people might just buy on price alone.
 
tsedge said:
I would, but then I know enough to be able to tell the difference between a genuinely unsafe car and one that just doesn't comply with NCAP. I highly doubt most people would and to them, NCAP = Is my car safe? The monopoly effectively mandates compliance because most manufacturers can't afford not to score highly.

Interesting though that the Zoe (I think) deliberately dropped NCAP compliance to reduce the cost (on one model I think - might have the wrong car). I suppose at the value end of the market (which is where MG is really), people might just buy on price alone.
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Some might pay extra for new cars without NCAP systems!
 
tsedge said:
I would, but then I know enough to be able to tell the difference between a genuinely unsafe car and one that just doesn't comply with NCAP. I highly doubt most people would and to them, NCAP = Is my car safe? The monopoly effectively mandates compliance because most manufacturers can't afford not to score highly.

Interesting though that the Zoe (I think) deliberately dropped NCAP compliance to reduce the cost (on one model I think - might have the wrong car). I suppose at the value end of the market (which is where MG is really), people might just buy on price alone.
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They changed the side airbags on the ZE50 from head and thorax to head only, but even if they hadn't the ZE50 would have only got 1 star under the updated tests because of it's lack of modern driver aids.
 
Cocijo said:
I wonder if customers would actually buy cars that were not NCAP 5 star, very safe in crash tests, but downgraded because for example LKA wasn’t included? I bet that they would!
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I think there are cars that are on sale that haven't been tested.

The MG ZS EV didn't have any rating for a while when it went on sale, and there were buyers.

I think NCAP can just test cars without manufacturers involvement, so it makes sense for them to work with them as eventually you'd assume they'd test it anyway.

Interesting article here I stumbled on. Seems I am not the only one that thinks the LKS thing is a bad move for NCAP:

www.carwow.co.uk

Euro NCAP ratings explained

You’ve likely seen Euro NCAP ratings when looking for a new car, but what do they mean? This guide explains.
www.carwow.co.uk www.carwow.co.uk
 
Bodgerx said:
I think there are cars that are on sale that haven't been tested.

The MG ZS EV didn't have any rating for a while when it went on sale, and there were buyers.

I think NCAP can just test cars without manufacturers involvement, so it makes sense for them to work with them as eventually you'd assume they'd test it anyway.

Interesting article here I stumbled on. Seems I am not the only one that thinks the LKS thing is a bad move for NCAP:

www.carwow.co.uk

Euro NCAP ratings explained

You’ve likely seen Euro NCAP ratings when looking for a new car, but what do they mean? This guide explains.
www.carwow.co.uk www.carwow.co.uk
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Interesting article. It shows what appears to be a very naive approach by NCAP
 
Speed assists on the cars I have driven are currently not fit for purpose and should remain an advisory "opt in" not "opt out" until they:

1. Can read road marked speed restrictions
2. Read over head gantry speed restrictions reliably
3. Integrate published speed limits for roads as used by various mapping apps
4. Stop reading speed limits assigned to slip roads, parallel roads and side roads
5. Read small speed signs reliably

Currently, my MG4 cannot satisfy any of these and I am praying that the next "software update" does not make speed assist an "opt out"
 
Bodgerx said:
I have no objections as long as the systems are reliable.

At the moment, many manufacturers have terrible lane keep assist system implementations that are actually dangerous. Which makes the situation perverse when it's a safety body dealing out stars on the basis of these things existing as a check box.
Click to expand...
Don’t ever get the MG4 this tries to pull the wheel out of my hands downright dangerous. Tony
 
When we're on the motorway, our MG4 Trophy thinks that the speed limit is either 40 or there's no limit at all. Our previous Leaf was getting the limit from the navigation system when unable to read the sign/there's the end sign so the standard limit applies. The MG just annoyingly blinks.
And I agree that the LKA of this car should take away NCAP points, not adding them! Ages away from Tesla and even Nissan.
You get what you pay for, I guess (still a silly lot of money)
 
The NCAP is a great system to show how safe a car can be although the highest speed they use is 39mph (55kmh) and most of the tests are done at just 18-22mph!
The speed limiter will have to be fitted to every new car as of April this year, it can be switched off but at the moment, you will probably run the risk of higher fines in the future when speeding as not using it will impact the final decision.
I use the intelligent speed limiter on my MG4 on busy motorways and manual when driving through towns and cities, I find it works well most of the time in auto mode but you do still need to keep your observation skills sharp due to very poor road markings and signage on UK roads.
As for Lane Keeping, well compared to my previous ZS the MG4 isn’t as smooth for sure, I switch it to alert or off before setting off. In traffic jam assist its better but still needs some software work. It would be nice if it remembered I like it switched off though 😜
 
Alansurfer said:
The NCAP is a great system to show how safe a car can be although the highest speed they use is 39mph (55kmh) and most of the tests are done at just 18-22mph!
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That's probably because that's the speed range of most accidents.

Plus, if they were launching cars at 70mph at concrete walls most accidents would probably show limited survivability.
 
Alansurfer said:
The NCAP is a great system to show how safe a car can be although the highest speed they use is 39mph (55kmh) and most of the tests are done at just 18-22mph!
The speed limiter will have to be fitted to every new car as of April this year, it can be switched off but at the moment, you will probably run the risk of higher fines in the future when speeding as not using it will impact the final decision.
I use the intelligent speed limiter on my MG4 on busy motorways and manual when driving through towns and cities, I find it works well most of the time in auto mode but you do still need to keep your observation skills sharp due to very poor road markings and signage on UK roads.
As for Lane Keeping, well compared to my previous ZS the MG4 isn’t as smooth for sure, I switch it to alert or off before setting off. In traffic jam assist its better but still needs some software work. It would be nice if it remembered I like it switched off though 😜
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Is it a great system? I’m not so sure. I think that it needs a complete overhaul. In many cases ncap is being used as a marketing tool by manufacturers, who look to get a tick in the box in order to give their cars a 5 star status
The real focus should be on safety systems that work and work well.
Yes, we’ve come a long way and crash testing has had a huge impact on safety, but recent developments show a naivety of what is effective in the real world and a loss of direction.
 
Bodgerx said:
That's probably because that's the speed range of most accidents.

Plus, if they were launching cars at 70mph at concrete walls most accidents would probably show limited survivability.
Click to expand...
It is quite alarming how bad all cars are in a relatively slow impact.
From the attached:
Car Drivers
The risk of injury in any collision is influenced by many factors, including the vehicle’s speed, its design, strength and occupant protection systems, whether the occupants were wearing seat belts, the nature of the other vehicle(s) or object(s) struck, and the medical care received by the victims.
However, car drivers are much more likely to be injured in collisions at higher speeds. On average, in frontal impacts, belted drivers have a 17% risk of being fatally injured in impacts at 40 mph and a 60% risk at 50 mph. Having said that, half of drivers who were fatally injured were in an impact of 34 mph or less.
Side Impacts
When cars are hit from the side, drivers are at a much greater risk: in a collision at 40 mph, the risk of a belted driver being killed is 85%.
 
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