LFP NMC Batteries?

[remarkable1967]

I'll admit that the whole EV battery subject is a little like alchemy to me. What gives with difference between LFP and NMC batteries? I've read some recent threads where people are concerned with low range figures they are getting with the current cold snap in good old Blighty. Is one battery type better than another with regards to colder weather and also is it true that one type you are supposed to charge to 100% and the other type you don't ??. As I say.... Alchemy.

Ta.... Mark

 

[the briggie]

Mark, read this for some info. Both types are affected by cold weather but the lfp (SR) having shorter range has a greater impact because of that very fact. LR, although similarly affected still maintains, for some, a more acceptable range imo

MG4 LFP/NMC batteries

So, I did a video on getting a pre-order of an MG4 in Australia: One of the commenters said the MG4 base has an LFP battery, and the others have NMC. I didn't believe it at first (none of the YouTube reviews said this iirc), but checked on it and it's true apparently...

www.mgevs.com

 

[Jomarkh]

They are various threads on the ZS and MG5 forums too about battery types and how you should look after them.
I keep my NMC between 40-80% and balance once a month.

 

[remarkable1967]

Mark, read this for some info. Both types are affected by cold weather but the lfp (SR) having shorter range has a greater impact because of that very fact. LR, although similarly affected still maintains, for some, a more acceptable range imo

MG4 LFP/NMC batteries

So, I did a video on getting a pre-order of an MG4 in Australia: One of the commenters said the MG4 base has an LFP battery, and the others have NMC. I didn't believe it at first (none of the YouTube reviews said this iirc), but checked on it and it's true apparently...

www.mgevs.com

That's a really good insight thanks. What it does say to me is that a SR Trophy would probably be a good seller. I do around 250 miles per week and always said it wouldn't bother me if I had to charge twice a week. We should be hopefully ordering our MG4 in January and I may have a re-think on a SE Standard range. Cheers.......Mark

 

[profdraper]

Mark, read this for some info. Both types are affected by cold weather but the lfp (SR) having shorter range has a greater impact because of that very fact. LR, although similarly affected, still maintains for some, a more acceptable range imo

MG4 LFP/NMC batteries

So, I did a video on getting a pre-order of an MG4 in Australia: One of the commenters said the MG4 base has an LFP battery, and the others have NMC. I didn't believe it at first (none of the YouTube reviews said this iirc), but checked on it and it's true apparently...

www.mgevs.com

My 2 cents:

Conversely, the NMC (on the long range) may have problems with heat becuase its cooling system is not as efficient. This is the reason the Long Range was not initially released in Australia and is now under testing by authorities to better understand if that vechicle may be considered safe in this country. Still, the last MG ZS EV is only a rather mild 'facelift' to an ICE drop-in. Next 2024 model will be based on a new dedicated skateboard as per the MG4.

Odd how MG chose to use two different battery chemistries for the two ZS EV models, the SR being newer tech & the LR range older & both with different charging profiles & potential reliability over time. Likely a cost issue I imagine & one of the defing features of SIAC in this segment has been how they keep the cars relatively affordable. However, meanwhile the BYD Atto 3 w/ its highly successful blade battery tech has become the go-to for the 'cheap' EVs in this country, 2nd in sales numbers only to Tesla.

Re. battery chemistry in general. I think that this will be the defining feature of EVs over the next few years & will be unrecognisable from EVs of today. If one already had an EV (like myself with a Mk1 ZS EV) I'd be a little more patient and hang onto that for a little while yet. Next gen batteries (eg, sodium, solid state etc) will continue to be developed as safer, faster charging, greater range, lighter and cheaper.

Most recent research indicates that battery tech is by far the most rapidly developing area of this market, but not to dismiss other revised approaches & innovations. Most of what we're seeing right now tends to be knee jerk, predatory & fast moving, many just as realively simple ICE conversions. Next gens are revising efficiencies and performance overall & incl. the electric motor design itself (eg Megane eTech), breaking, steering, everything. Then there's price which over time should be become less expensive /better value and certainly more accurate vs. the utter BS of manufacturer's current WLTP guesstimates ... One of the most recent fascinatingdevelopments is in a new BMW patent which uses the suspension much like KERS. Interesting times.

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[remarkable1967]

When I read that a SR model charged to 100% achieves about the same range as a LR model charged to 80%, this make me think that the choice is basically between an SE model or a Trophy and not standard or long range. I also read recently that the average EV journey in the UK is around 35 miles. Yes there may be those occasions where people do the road trip distances but not on a daily basis. When I first entered the EV purchasing process, I stupidly got pulled along by the "range anxiety" discussion which I now believe is a smokescreen for the fact that EVs are just too damned expensive. My weekly commute is around 200 miles so most EVs will cover that with perhaps a mid week top up which is not a problem to me. With the MG4, I thought the sweet spot was probably a Long range SE but I don't believe that is now the case. I think the sweet spot for me is the car that currently doesn't exist.... A standard range Trophy model. Might have to re-think this one before ordering.

 

[Gomev]

When I read that a SR model charged to 100% achieves about the same range as a LR model charged to 80%, this make me think that the choice is basically between an SE model or a Trophy and not standard or long range. I also read recently that the average EV journey in the UK is around 35 miles. Yes there may be those occasions where people do the road trip distances but not on a daily basis. When I first entered the EV purchasing process, I stupidly got pulled along by the "range anxiety" discussion which I now believe is a smokescreen for the fact that EVs are just too damned expensive. My weekly commute is around 200 miles so most EVs will cover that with perhaps a mid week top up which is not a problem to me. With the MG4, I thought the sweet spot was probably a Long range SE but I don't believe that is now the case. I think the sweet spot for me is the car that currently doesn't exist.... A standard range Trophy model. Might have to re-think this one before ordering.

Completely understand what you are saying re day to day driving. However in simplistic terms and stating the bleedin' obvious an SR at 100% has less range than the LR at 100% (or 80% each or 50% each etc. etc.). I can use that extra range/battery capacity in differing ways, the most important at the moment is that I can have the heater blasting out hot air for a journey and still have a longer range than an SR with the driver shivering in the cold.
This is just another point to add to the mix, it's not necessarily about range but the use the battery is put to.

 

[remarkable1967]

Yeah that's a good point. I think the problem is that having a driving history of ICE cars behind me, I'm having to re-learn all the terminology for the EV world. Motor power, battery type & capacity etc. It's weird to think that as a 55 years old Aerospace composites testing engineer, I'm now sounding lile a "newbie" as my 11 year old son would put it. I might have to think of some specific questions to ask around the day to day home charging of a LR model just to put my mind at ease about the 80%-100% conversation.
Thanks .... Mark

 

[the briggie]

20 to 80% is the sweet spot. I charge regularly to 90%, without in my researched opinion, doing any harm to the batteries over the lifetime of the car. I get the 100% and below 5% regular charge % impact. Too much DC charging and excessive tops ups to 100% should be avoided but hey I bought my car for the advertised range when I need it not to kneel at the altar of battery preservation...just my opinion.

 

[Gomev]

Yeah that's a good point. I think the problem is that having a driving history of ICE cars behind me, I'm having to re-learn all the terminology for the EV world. Motor power, battery type & capacity etc. It's weird to think that as a 55 years old Aerospace composites testing engineer, I'm now sounding lile a "newbie" as my 11 year old son would put it. I might have to think of some specific questions to ask around the day to day home charging of a LR model just to put my mind at ease about the 80% -

It is a perfectly normal newbie thing to do, wonder about all this stuff. As an ex-newbie my only advice would be don't bother wondering. It's a car, does it do what you want it to do and is it the right colour.