My tale of woe with solar pv plus a word of advice

[Les burrows]

Some of you may remember I have been asking for quotes to extend my currant PV array for a couple of months now, and have found this difficult to say the least.
Having had solar for over 10yrs now I knew well of its benefits having recoup my investment in them in less than 7 of those 10 yrs, so with the energy prices going the way that they are we decide now was the time to invest further in solar, so my currant array of 3.84kw was at the time of the best I could have to obtain the FITs payments you where limited to 4 kw max.

So a couple of months ago once we had decided to get some extra ones put up I measured the size of the panels I had on the roof now ( big mistake) then I measured the roof space, I worked out I could fit another 5 new panels around my existing array on the roof, plus using the same size of panels I could get 5 on my gable wall which gets a lot of sunlight from sunrise to around 14:00 hrs, i and sent my request with photographs for quotes to quite a few companies who install solar PV.

To most of the mails I sent I got little or no reply, the common reply’s being sorry we are fully booked for he foreseeable future but you could try us again in a few months time, or, there is very limited components available for us to even look at taking new orders, at this time, ( a bit like the motor industry ), then in this last week I had the worse news of all when one of the companies wrote back to say I had not got enough roof space to do what I had requested which was to have 2 new panels fitted to the left of my currant panels plus 3/4 underneath them, and I could not fit more than 2 on the gable wall without permission from the DNO and possibly the planing office of my local council.

Then yesterday a gentleman for a firm not to far away who had given me a quote came to do a survey of the property and explained why it was not possible to do what I wanted and told me the maximum I could add was 4 in total not10.!!! and here’s the reason why and the mistake I made.

The currant panels the ones I used for my measurements are 1450x980mm 240kw x16 = 3.84kw.
The panels today and they had quote for are 1750x1080mm and 375-400 kw so they can’t be fitted below my panels because I have only about 1300mm of tiles showing and the rules state there must be 330mm of roof tile below the solar panels minimum.
On the gabel wall only 2 the panels could be fitted because you are not allowed to have any less than 300mm to any opening window, so that’s my tale of Woe.

So to the advice part off the heading, if you are thinking of going for solar PV be sure to get as much as you can installed from the off, because things do change over time to have 4 extra fitted now is not cost effective for me and all my measurements where irrelevant because solar panels today are not only have more output they are also bigger to get that increase in output.

There was an option to remove the 16 panels I have now and fit the more powerful/ bigger ones almost doubling my output but in doing that I would loose my FITs payments and it would cost a considerable amount more for the new panels plus and a new bigger inverter to handle the extra output, so if you going down this way my advice is get all you can as I don’t see the price of energy ever dropping to anywhere we have known it to be before do you.
Les ( Gutted ).

 

[Jomarkh]

That very interesting about the 300mm rule as I am have panels installed in the next few weeks and that has not been mentioned...

 

[BugEyed]

The 300mn from the edges of the roof relate to safety for workers walking around the array and the stresses on the mounting system. None of them are absolute.
The distance from the window is to avoid the risk of electrocution.
Have you considered 2nd hand panels? Getting MCS approved ones requires looking around a bit, but they do come up.

 

[Les burrows]

The 300mn from the edges of the roof relate to safety for workers walking around the array and the stresses on the mounting system. None of them are absolute.
The distance from the window is to avoid the risk of electrocution.
Have you considered 2nd hand panels? Getting MCS approved ones requires looking around a bit, but they do come up.

Hi yeh your right about buying 2nd hand there’s plenty about but no not for me as it still a fair old cost to put them up and no way of know how long the might last think not as for the 300mm that’s correct also but a few of the installers have said they would not ignore that MSC ruling under any circumstance.
Les
Told the wife where moving house she just said you are !!!

 

[Bluesparky]

I installed my own system, 5KW from 14 panels, once you go above 4kw the regs change and the system becomes a"solar farm" , 4kw+ system comes under same regs as a field full of panels.
There was no FITS when I installed and the extra cost involved in getting it MCS approved would have cost more than it was worth. Generally my house runs at just under 1kw/hour giving me 4kw to charge the car , so on sunny days if the car is not charging the dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer and immersion are all being used! The complete system cost me just under £4000, at the rate we are going, I will have payback in possibly under 2 years. (if you minus the money I used to shell out on diesel which is replaced by free electric, payback will definitely be less than 2 years).
But definitely agree, its worth looking into a bigger system from the start or allowing provisions for it. Also worth bearing in mind that it won't be long before all cars will be able to send the electric back to the house, would save thousands on a solar battery storage system and you would be able to use every watt generated. Free electric night and day.

 

[Les burrows]

I installed my own system, 5KW from 14 panels, once you go above 4kw the regs change and the system becomes a"solar farm" , 4kw+ system comes under same regs as a field full of panels.
There was no FITS when I installed and the extra cost involved in getting it MCS approved would have cost more than it was worth. Generally my house runs at just under 1kw/hour giving me 4kw to charge the car , so on sunny days if the car is not charging the dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer and immersion are all being used! The complete system cost me just under £4000, at the rate we are going, I will have payback in possibly under 2 years. (if you minus the money I used to shell out on diesel which is replaced by free electric, payback will definitely be less than 2 years).
But definitely agree, its worth looking into a bigger system from the start or allowing provisions for it. Also worth bearing in mind that it won't be long before all cars will be able to send the electric back to the house, would save thousands on a solar battery storage system and you would be able to use every watt generated. Free electric night and day.

Hi bluesparky, thanks for the posting, this was exactly why I was trying to increase my array, we did a pod cast on this very subject on 20th June and I said on that then, it was the best investment I ever made, I am now into around my third year of almost free electric for several months of the year almost free ev charging as we are now both retired and home a lot when the sun is out plus of course, Tesco freebies from time to time motoring has never been so good
And it’s exactly why I did this thread to advise others to be careful when going with solar and get the best and the most you can from the off, glad you agree.
Les.

 

[Bluesparky]

Just be aware that the DNO will not want you to send more than 4kw back to the grid, so no point putting in a large system for the sake of it, unless you will be able to use it.

 

[Les burrows]

Just be aware that the DNO will not want you to send more than 4kw back to the grid, so no point putting in a large system for the sake of it, unless you will be able to use it.

Yeh I had been warned about that so I rang my local DNO and was told the might need to visit the property but the installer would need to inform them and obtain permission to fit the extra panels but shouldn’t be to much of a problem.
Youngest son lives in London as just over 6KW and the DNO ok it with problem I think it’s down to where you are.
Les

 

[Bluesparky]

Yeh I had been warned about that so I rang my local DNO and was told the might need to visit the property but the installer would need to inform them and obtain permission to fit the extra panels but shouldn’t be to much of a problem.
Youngest son lives in London as just over 6KW and the DNO ok it with problem I think it’s down to where you are.
Les

they allow you to fit the system, but you will probably find the commissioning paperwork says the system should not be able to send more than 4kw to the grid. I.E. if you are not using enough , the inverter should limit what goes back to the grid. Think that is part of the regs.

 

[Les burrows]

they allow you to fit the system, but you will probably find the commissioning paperwork says the system should not be able to send more than 4kw to the grid. I.E. if you are not using enough , the inverter should limit what goes back to the grid. Think that is part of the regs.

Ok I don’t know maybe if your doing a system with batteries for storage that’s how they can have over 4 perhaps, my lad has a powerwall on he’s set up but I have also watch quite a few on YT who are well over 4KW in facts evpuzzle for one and you know the guy off the fully charge show Robert Llewelyn he’s go way way over that but then he’s got 2 powerwalls as well lucky bugger

The podcast I spoke of earlier in this thread was the 20th of June
Les.

 

[BugEyed]

It's not the kWp of the panels that matters, it's the export limit on the inverter.
There's a number of issues with panels, in most of the country you rarely achieve close to the kWp of the panels because of the solar insolation levels, panel temperature, sub-optimal orientation/inclination, shading etc.
If you have a hybrid inverter it's the AC output that matters, so whilst mine is limited to 16A it can also output 2.5kW DC assuming that there's headroom in the batteries.
The reality is that as a Go user my SEG is very low so I export as little as possible and use as much as possible to charge the EVs and heat water in our buffer tank.

 

[Les burrows]

Yeh the SEG tariff is I believe what you get paid for the electricity that you export back to the grid so if you use all your system produces you don’t get any payments at least I think that’s how it works with SEG.
With the old FITs scheme you get a payment for what you generate whether you use it or not.
I like you try to use everything I generate but that’s not always possible but I still get a payment as I’m on the old FITs tariff so it doesn’t matter really but if I don’t use it then I’m drawing off the grid at times so when the suns up immersion heater, washing machine, tumble dryer, etc go on one after the other.

Had I had been able to add to my system like I wanted too then I would not have been paid anything from that set of panels as you can’t get both SEG and FITs on the same property that I did find out but I could use it, I like you charge the EV and soon I hope to be charging a second one as well,but not at the same time plus sometimes an electric heaters or two when needed while we are generating power, which is one of the reasons I wanted to increase my system and hoped to do away with gas at least as much as possible but it’s not to be which is a pity, what I have found out this week about the panel sizes and what I can fit as the extra would give me around 1.5~2.0kw only so not worth the outlay, but that’s the way things go. My own fault I know I should have double checked the panel dimensions.
So I start this thread in the hope no one else will make the same mistakes like I did.
Les