Safety software issue

[Tim Green]

I was rudely reminded today of an issue I discovered the first day I had my mk 1 ZS over 3 years ago.
Parked on a hill, I pressed the go button, waited for the gong, selected R and took my foot off the brake, and the car rolled forwards. Jammed on the brake, tried again, same problem. Turned off, on again, same problem. Eventually I realised that the drivers door was not properly latched shut, and that was the problem. Now that is a safety issue! It should not be possible for the car to let the brake off if it is not going to work properly. Today, I had the same problem, and only realised after 3 attempts to start off. If MG are reading this - SORT IT!

 

[N2STY]

Are you saying you did not have to put you foot on the brake to release handbrake or to put it into reverse was there no door ajar warning on the dash?

 

[Tim Green]

When I cam to notice it, the door open little red line was there on the dash. However, that was after the car had nearly rolled into the car in front. Somehow, if the front door is not properly closed, the car is put in neutral and the parking brake is released. This is bizarre and very dangerous. The protocol of the "ready to drive" system is obviously faulty and needs rectification. Imagine what could occur if the micro-switch on the door goes faulty?

 

[Kithmo]

Turn Auto hold off and just use hill start assist.
All sorts of weird things happen when auto hold is used, the car won't go into gear if a door is open or your seatbelt is not buckled up etc. but the auto hold still releases the brakes if you touch the accelerator pedal, hence the roll forward.

 

[Tim Green]

You may be right about auto-hold etc, I just use what I regard as normal for an automatic car which I have used for some 30 years. This means the car will “creep” in traffic without touching the accelerator. The use of the terms auto-hold and hill start assist are misleading.
However, that is not the point. The problem is that the car should not release the handbrake on its own just because the door is not shut. That is a nonsense and is not safe. Simples.

 

[Lovemyev]

On our previous VW PHEV there was a full sequence you had to follow to the letter, in order to get the electric hand brake to release correctly.
Foot firmly on the footbrake of course and drivers door fully closed.
Drivers seat belt securely fastened.
Any spaces / gaps in the process and the handbrake would fail to release.
I remember one day, I wanted to reverse back slightly with the drivers door ajar, wanted to see just how close the alloy wheel was to the high curb stone the O/S/R wheel.
It would not release the handbrake even with the drivers door slightly ajar.
A flaw with the MG system ( depending on your point of view ) is that when the car is booted, you are then able to release the driver seat belt and move the car forward.
This maybe seen as handy to help remove you wallet from the front pocket of your jeans, when paying at the drive through, but could be questioned I guess ?.
I fall for this trick every single time.
Of course the seat belt "bonger" will sound, above about 15 MPH but it can still be driven.
On the VW if I attempted this, it would sense the removal of the seat belt and re-lock the handbrake.

 

[Tim Green]

Being able to drive the car with no seat belt on is a different level of threat from the car rolling forward when you do not expect it to. In my view, the car should do exactly what you normally expect whether or not the door is fully closed. If the manufacturer wants to be extra safe, then do as the VW does and keep the brake on until everything is as it should be. It should definitely NOT leave the car in neutral with the parking brake off.
MG have corrected all sorts of software problems in the last three years, but left a safety critical problem wide open. I hope MG staff read these forums! (Incidentally, I reported the first occurance to the supplying MG dealer, but obviously that got nowhere).

 

[Roldorf]

The Neutral setting is used for when you want to put your car through an automatic car wash, push it off the road if your battery runs out, pull it onto a recovery trailer and many other things where the handbrake needs to be released so the car can roll.

 

[AK OK]

Turn Auto hold off and just use hill start assist.
All sorts of weird things happen when auto hold is used, the car won't go into gear if a door is open or your seatbelt is not buckled up etc. but the auto hold still releases the brakes if you touch the accelerator pedal, hence the roll forward.

That's not true about seat belts!

On our previous VW PHEV there was a full sequence you had to follow to the letter, in order to get the electric hand brake to release correctly.
Foot firmly on the footbrake of course and drivers door fully closed.
Drivers seat belt securely fastened.
Any spaces / gaps in the process and the handbrake would fail to release.
I remember one day, I wanted to reverse back slightly with the drivers door ajar, wanted to see just how close the alloy wheel was to the high curb stone the O/S/R wheel.
It would not release the handbrake even with the drivers door slightly ajar.
A flaw with the MG system ( depending on your point of view ) is that when the car is booted, you are then able to release the driver seat belt and move the car forward.
This maybe seen as handy to help remove you wallet from the front pocket of your jeans, when paying at the drive through, but could be questioned I guess ?.
I fall for this trick every single time.
Of course the seat belt "bonger" will sound, above about 15 MPH but it can still be driven.
On the VW if I attempted this, it would sense the removal of the seat belt and re-lock the handbrake.

What & bring you scraping to a halt from 40mph say?

Being able to drive the car with no seat belt on is a different level of threat from the car rolling forward when you do not expect it to. In my view, the car should do exactly what you normally expect whether or not the door is fully closed. If the manufacturer wants to be extra safe, then do as the VW does and keep the brake on until everything is as it should be. It should definitely NOT leave the car in neutral with the parking brake off.
MG have corrected all sorts of software problems in the last three years, but left a safety critical problem wide open. I hope MG staff read these forums! (Incidentally, I reported the first occurance to the supplying MG dealer, but obviously that got nowhere).

As has been discussed & mulled several times this or other fora are not the place to communicate effectively with the manufacturer seemingly on any level.

I suggest you pursue other pathways to report such safety issues if you are serious

 

[Lovemyev]

What & bring you scraping to a halt from 40mph say?

In VAG vehicles - Yes.
And it would appears similar on the ZS EV.

 

[AK OK]

In VAG vehicles - Yes.

So let's get this straight... You are saying in the VW you used to have - driving along at 40mph, you take your seat belt off & the handbrake comes on by itself & slews the car to a stop?
I'd say that was a bigger safety issue than the one being amplified on this thread!

 

[Tim Green]

If a car rolls forward it can easily crush someone or a child if there is a car in front.
As to AKOK, As noted I mentioned it to the dealer who was not interested.

 

[AK OK]

If a car rolls forward it can easily crush someone or a child if there is a car in front.
As to AKOK, As noted I mentioned it to the dealer who was not interested.

Case closed then.

I was rudely reminded today of an issue I discovered the first day I had my mk 1 ZS over 3 years ago.
Parked on a hill, I pressed the go button, waited for the gong, selected R and took my foot off the brake, and the car rolled forwards. Jammed on the brake, tried again, same problem. Turned off, on again, same problem. Eventually I realised that the drivers door was not properly latched shut, and that was the problem. Now that is a safety issue! It should not be possible for the car to let the brake off if it is not going to work properly. Today, I had the same problem, and only realised after 3 attempts to start off. If MG are reading this - SORT IT!

Intrigued, I just tried this and cannot replicate it.

Seat belt on or off?
Autohold on or off?

 

[Tim Green]

Odd! The car was parked on a hill facing down. I got in, foot on brake, pushed start, waited for bong, selected R, foot off brake, car rolled forward. Several goes of that, noted drivers door was on first catch, ie shut but not fully shut. Closed door properly all ok.
I just did it again to test and it was the same!

Ps, seat belt off as reversing

 

[Lovemyev]

So let's get this straight... You are saying in the VW you used to have - driving along at 40mph, you take your seat belt off & the handbrake comes on by itself & slews the car to a stop?
I'd say that was a bigger safety issue than the one being amplified on this thread!

Nope - With VAG If you are stationary with handbrake released ( ready to drive ) then if you unbuckle the belt and then slightly open the driver door, the car apply the hand brake.
The electronic handbrake can be used to slow down the car from speed in an emergency, by holding UP the hand brake toggle switch.
The car will not like it of course and sound out a lot of visual and audio warnings.
Ask me how I know !.

 

[Tim Green]

Try it like I did it, in that sequence.
Of course, it might be peculiar to my car.

 

[AK OK]

Odd! The car was parked on a hill facing down. I got in, foot on brake, pushed start, waited for bong, selected R, foot off brake, car rolled forward. Several goes of that, noted drivers door was on first catch, ie shut but not fully shut. Closed door properly all ok.
I just did it again to test and it was the same!

Ah "facing downhill" ... I'll try next opportunity.
Autohold on or off?

 

[Tim Green]

Autohold was off. Eg no light shining at the A button!

 

[AK OK]

Autohold was off. Eg no light shining at the A button!

Ah well as seat belt not on, autohold switch would not be illuminated!
Do you normally have it off (as it were)?

 

[Tim Green]

Yes, normally off but I have tried it both ways, as it were.
Having used auto cars for years, I’m used to creep.