Western concerns about Chinese “snooping “ high tech companies

Amazon, Google, Facebook and Apple all know far more about me that I know about myself, why on earth would I be worried if the Chinese govt was interested in what I'm up to? And if they are, they really need to spy on more interesting people!
 
Its a mute point as it depends how you categorise. So Highway, Council or other "government" cameras or counting all cameras that police can request footage from on demand shops, cash points private security cameras in buildings, carparks, small businesses etc etc.... is a much much bigger figure. Semantics, too many which ever way you cut the pie.
I would point out a several things in relation to your response.
If you are suggesting that the figures I quoted are low, because of what they take in to account fair enough, but the other countries then need judged against the same criteria, and their figures could rise likewise, so context is important, and we need to use the data we have, which has the UK in third.
I also notice that the information you provide with the higher figures relate to London, not the UK, which is the primary reason the figures appear higher.
I also note that the carefully cropped snippet you provided, that there is a "3" in front of the text, which also tallies with London's position on the global table of cities, so even only taking London in to account, it is still in third position.
I wouldn't call it semantics to provide demonstrably incorrect information as fact. It is a personal bugbear of mine, when people state incorrect information as fact. I appreciate that it is an internet forum, and not a scholarly article, and that I may be like King Canute on the internet, but I do believe it is important.
As I couldn't find figures that agreed with your representation, I simply asked for your source. It also may not have been intended, but you could have said, 'I don't have a source, I may have been wrong, but the UK is certainly up there, and there is too many which ever way you cut the pie", but instead, you attempted to muddy the waters, with higher figures for a completely different category to the original statement (cities instead of Countries/state), which made the UK's position appear much higher that the others and still neglected to mention that even with these new higher figures, London was still not in the highest.

Finally, my apologies for taking a minor comment on a thread, and having a rant, but as mentioned it does annoy me greatly as I believe it is important, especially when 'facts' can be spread so easily, when misinformation is presented as fact.
 
I would point out a several things in relation to your response.
If you are suggesting that the figures I quoted are low, because of what they take in to account fair enough, but the other countries then need judged against the same criteria, and their figures could rise likewise, so context is important, and we need to use the data we have, which has the UK in third.
I also notice that the information you provide with the higher figures relate to London, not the UK, which is the primary reason the figures appear higher.
I also note that the carefully cropped snippet you provided, that there is a "3" in front of the text, which also tallies with London's position on the global table of cities, so even only taking London in to account, it is still in third position.
I wouldn't call it semantics to provide demonstrably incorrect information as fact. It is a personal bugbear of mine, when people state incorrect information as fact. I appreciate that it is an internet forum, and not a scholarly article, and that I may be like King Canute on the internet, but I do believe it is important.
As I couldn't find figures that agreed with your representation, I simply asked for your source. It also may not have been intended, but you could have said, 'I don't have a source, I may have been wrong, but the UK is certainly up there, and there is too many which ever way you cut the pie", but instead, you attempted to muddy the waters, with higher figures for a completely different category to the original statement (cities instead of Countries/state), which made the UK's position appear much higher that the others and still neglected to mention that even with these new higher figures, London was still not in the highest.

Finally, my apologies for taking a minor comment on a thread, and having a rant, but as mentioned it does annoy me greatly as I believe it is important, especially when 'facts' can be spread so easily, when misinformation is presented as fact.
Hi Rocinante. The other two above were Chinese cities (only snipped it as it was a huge list despite the inference that it was subterfuge which is a bit Machiavellian). Original claim was from a 2020 Panorama programme so definitely not gospel! I agree re demonstrable facts, which would require, a like for like and detailed analysis of the comparators which we all know would be impossible unless you wanted to spend your life worrying about the total numbers the premise is the same too many cameras. You are of course presuming your figures/views are the demonstrably the truth? Your sources (facts) must be excellent if they are unchallengeable. Although I'm not claiming mine are unchallengeable. (y) 😁
 
Hi Rocinante. The other two above were Chinese cities (only snipped it as it was a huge list despite the inference that it was subterfuge which is a bit Machiavellian). Original claim was from a 2020 Panorama programme so definitely not gospel! I agree re demonstrable facts, which would require, a like for like and detailed analysis of the comparators which we all know would be impossible unless you wanted to spend your life worrying about the total numbers the premise is the same too many cameras. You are of course presuming your figures/views are the demonstrably the truth? Your sources (facts) must be excellent if they are unchallengeable. Although I'm not claiming mine are unchallengeable. (y) 😁
I really don't want to turn this thread in to this debate, but...
I am absolutely not claiming my facts are unchallengeable. I am just claiming to have presented some facts and figures, and am quite happy to have them challenged. But they are based in some form of research and analysis.

You on the other hand have provided absolutely no facts or figures, but made a bold claim that the UK had the most cameras per capita. When asked to back up the claim in any shape or form, you have been unable to do so, and instead of saying so, went on to provide figures for a different claim, implying your first claim was still correct due to the amount of unaccounted for cameras in the UK and again provided no evidence, facts or figures apart from the unrelated figures, which arguably could mislead people in to thinking the UK figures were higher than any evidence indicates.

As for you innocently cropping the London figures (which were greatly above the country figures), when asked to demonstrate the UK was most surveyed, because there were 2 Chinese cites above it, on a discussion on Chinese snooping seems a very peculiar argument.

You will no doubt strongly disagree with my synopsis, but from my side of the screen, this about sums it up:

Party 1 - Makes a claim
Party 2 - Do you have any evidence for that, the only research I can find doesn't seem to agree with that.
Party 1 - I'm right, and here's the evidence.
Party 2 - But that evidence has nothing to do with your claim.
Party 1 - Well what does it matter, it's impossible to say to who's right.
Party 2 - Well you made the claim originally, so you must have thought it was possible to say, and I've presented some research that indicates otherwise ?
........

Finally, I will try and refrain from any more debate on this, I think I've made my argument, but don't let that stop you if you feel the desire for a rebuttable.
 
I just give all my information to everybody, that way they can't sell it to any body else. :LOL:
 
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