Winter tyres

[gian]

[ Moderator: Split off from the "No Problems" thread as requested. ]

For me everything works perfectly,
this car helps me (sometimes) to maintain a calmer and more relaxed drive.
I am waiting to check the behaviour with the new winter tyres (I think more performing), which I have already purchased and will have mounted in the next few days.

Done.
With the new winter tyres (complete wheel, for ease of replacement), I feel like I am driving a higher quality car, greater control, stability and road holding.
These are just the first impressions, they are only a day old, but if the premises are confirmed, I will seriously think about replacing the summer ones too (only tyres).

 

[Deleted member 18108]

Done.
With the new winter tires (complete wheel, for ease of replacement), I feel like I am driving a higher quality car, greater control, stability and road holding.
These are just the first impressions, they are only a day old, but if the premises are confirmed, I will seriously think about replacing the summer ones too (only tires).

What brand of winter tyres, did you settle on? I fitted Nokian to a previous car and to save the hassle of swapping over tyres in the Spring, as I have limited shed space, I fiited Goodyear all season tyres to the car next car. Both were good, but the Goodyear were the best in the wet, as they sliced through standing water.

 

[Italy]

According to a reputable and reliable consumer magazine in France, the 3 best winter tyres are :

Goodyear ultra grip performance 3

Continental winter contact TS870

Dunlop winter sport 5

 

[gian]

What brand of winter tyres, did you settle on? I fitted Nokian to a previous car and to save the hassle of swapping over tyres in the Spring, as I have limited shed space, I fiited Goodyear all season tyres to the car next car. Both were good, but the Goodyear were the best in the wet, as they sliced through standing water.

BRIDGESTONE
BLIZZAK LM-005 195/55 R16 87H
Car: MG MG3 HYBRID+ 2024 ZP22 - ZP2A

Excellent in the wet (A grade)

 

[Deleted member 18108]

According to a reputable and reliable consumer magazine in France, the 3 best winter tyres are :

Goodyear ultra grip performance 3

Continental winter contact TS870

Dunlop winter sport 5

I just did a quick price comparison and this is the cost for each over here. I have included Goodyear All Season as the winters here don't justify winter tyres along with the hassle of storage:
Dunlop Winter Sport 5 €99.79
Goodyear Ultra grip performance 3: €142
Continental winter contact TS870: €129.99
Goodyear Vector All Season Gen 2: €130

​

 

[Italy]

@DeclanB

I can give you detailed magazine reviews of the tyre you'd like.....but in French.

 

[Deleted member 18108]

​

I can give you detailed magazine reviews of the tyre you'd like.

Hi Italy,

That would be useful. I see the Bridgestone Blizzak LM005 is also €130. Generally, we don't only get really bad winters here. The last bad one for snow and ice was in 2010. Before that, it was 1982. That time, we were snowed in for about a week. Most years, the biggest issue is just wet roads with the odd spell of black ice. Decent winter or all-season tyres would be an advantage in an automatic, which has no manual override option.

​

 

[gian]

I just did a quick price comparison and this is the cost for each over here. I have included Goodyear All Season as the winters here don't justify winter tyres along with the hassle of storage:
Dunlop Winter Sport 5 €99.79
Goodyear Ultra grip performance 3: €142
Continental winter contact TS870: €129.99
Goodyear Vector All Season Gen 2: €130

​

All the more reason, you need the best on wet:
of your list, no tire is A on wet,
only B or C.

 

[Italy]

@DeclanB

Look at my private message

All the more reason, you need the best on wet:
of your list, no tire is A on wet,
only B or C.

The test is extremely thorough and detailed.
Wet grip is one criterion, but there are many others, such as... the longevity of this tyre‖, which is rated very poorly.
If you have to change it after 10,000 km, that's also a problem.

 

[Deleted member 18108]

All the more reason, you need the best on wet:
of your list, no tire is A on wet,
only B or C.

Good point.

There is the option of the following:
Driveguard Tyres in that size, they do help solve the problem of no spare wheel. Granted they are no good for a side wall puncture, but they do allow you to drive for 80km at up to 80km/h.

 

[gian]

The test is extremely thorough and detailed.
Wet grip is one criterion, but there are many others, such as... the longevity of this tyre‖, which is rated very poorly.
If you have to change it after 10,000 km, that's also a problem.

In all these years, I have never heard of tyres that last 10,000 km.
In all the cars I have owned, it has never happened, on the contrary.

The general rule is that they last between 6 and 10 years. Medium-low mileage.
Which can increase or decrease based on whether certain rules are respected (or not):

• Respect the recommended tire pressure.
• Check the wheel balance.
• Maintain correct wheel alignment.
• Drive smoothly.
• Store the tyres correctly.
• Rotate the tyres. (see MG3 manual).

By alternating winter and summer tyres with tyres suitable for the seasons,
the problem of longevity is really in last place.
Safety is always and only in first place, given that one of the problems of the MG3 is the long braking in extreme cases.
Furthermore, if possible, improving road holding is a great satisfaction.

These are the "Strengths" of the Bridgestone Blizzak LM005,
which led me to choose this Tyre:

• Braking on snow, ice and wet;
• Handling on wet;
• Low rolling resistance;
• Low consumption.

Surely there will be many other Brands with these characteristics,
but, in my opinion, "A on wet" is essential.

 

[Italy]

Don't worry, Gian, I agree with most of what you say, except that .... electric and hybrid cars wear their tyres more than conventional internal combustion cars.
The motoring press and car users know this for a fact.

So 10,000 km or 15,000 km is no exception.

 

[gian]

Don't worry, Gian, I agree with most of what you say, except that .... electric and hybrid cars wear their tyres more than conventional internal combustion cars.
The motoring press and car users know this for a fact.

So 10,000 km or 15,000 km is no exception.

Strange,
in the family we also have a Captur E-Tech full hybrid, 3 years old, with almost 30,000, but we have not noticed any greater tread wear.
We have not even changed any sets of tyres.

I had read:
"electric cars are generally heavier than their thermal counterparts (although, numbers in hand, this difference is much less marked than you might think on cars that are designed from the beginning for this propulsion) and obviously all this additional load weighs on the tyres. Furthermore, the powerful and instantaneous torque delivery that makes electric cars so snappy, translates into very intense stresses on the tyres, especially adding this to the first point."

 

[Deleted member 18108]

• Tyre choice will always be influenced by consumer preference. Some buyers are brand loyal, others (the vast majority, I'd imagine) are value-oriented, etc. Hence, the budget, mid-range, and premium sections are on most tyre sites. Then there is the cohort that buys part-worn tyres. Back in the day, when I started driving, all I could afford were the remoulds. This was a false economy as the longevity was poor, but it was a choice based on money in the pocket at the time. Now, I like to choose the best tyre I can afford within my budget. I rotate the tyres to even out wear and always put new tyres on the rear if I purchase a pair instead of all four.
• Many people will drive into their tyre depot and ask for a price for two or four tyres. Most will not ask about labels or ratings. Many will drive out of the depot not realising that their new tyres need time to bed in, thinking their new tyres will give increased grip, from the get-go.
• I don't tend to leave tyres to reach 1.6mm depth as I prefer to change around 3mm. I have witnessed the tyre tests on stopping distances at both wear levels and 1.6mm, doesn't cut it for me. Wet grip, ride comfort and longevity are my priorities. Fuel-efficient tyres I find to have less grip, so I am not bothered about an A rating in that category. In terms of longevity, the vehicle safety test here which kicks in at four years after the first registration and is every two years after that will consider a tyre greater than six years old as pass advisory. The implications of that, might only become apparent to some, if they are involved in an accident.
• There are some brands that I will not buy based on previous experience. Pirelli are an example, good grip etc, but longevity compared to other tyres did not justify the premium pricing for me. Michelin is another, the surface cracking on these, didn't sit well with me. I know other people who will swear by either brand, but that's why we have consumer choice.
• The others I will weigh up against the label ratings.

 

[Italy]

Thank you DeclanB for this common sense advice.

It's true that buying tyres is a subjective act that is all too often guided by a preference for one brand (some people, particularly in France, swear by Michelin tyres, rightly or wrongly believing them to be the best in the world).
Others have no choice but to buy the tyres they have in stock because they have burst one of their tyres and roadside assistance has taken them to a garage that only has such and such a brand in stock.

It's true that the A, B, C labels on the various criteria are very useful, but price is another, and above all the driving sensation, which again is very subjective

 

[gian]

BRIDGESTONE
BLIZZAK LM-005 195/55 R16 87H
Car: MG MG3 HYBRID+ 2024 ZP22 - ZP2A

Excellent in the wet (A grade)

To complete the discussion, I can add that with the new winter tyres, the car has improved significantly, after a positive first impression last Friday, today I tested on a mixed route: city, extra-urban (small climbs and descents), highway with curves (maximum speed allowed in that section, 110 km/h); the result was very positive: the car seems more stable and adheres to the ground, definitely safer.
This means that the car's design is valid, but they saved on some items, including the tyres (probably a compromise), see attachment.
On the other hand, on the same route already done several times (55 km), I found a higher fuel consumption: from 4.4 / 4.1 (results with the original tyres, ECO mode) to 5.00 / 4.80 l./100 km. (new tires, Normal mode), always respecting the road signs.
However, in my opinion, acceptable for better certain driving.
In the next few days I will try the new tyres with ECO mode.

Tests done on sunny / slightly cloudy days;
I have not yet been able to test on wet terrain or worse;
Saturday it was raining, but I drove for a short distance, not significant.
Comments invited.

 

[Deleted member 18108]

To complete the discussion, I can add that with the new winter tyres, the car has improved significantly, after a positive first impression last Friday, today I tested on a mixed route: city, extra-urban (small climbs and descents), highway with curves (maximum speed allowed in that section, 110 km/h); the result was very positive: the car seems more stable and adheres to the ground, definitely safer.
This means that the car's design is valid, but they saved on some items, including the tyres (probably a compromise), see attachment.
On the other hand, on the same route already done several times (55 km), I found a higher fuel consumption: from 4.4 / 4.1 (results with the original tyres, ECO mode) to 5.00 / 4.80 l./100 km. (new tires, Normal mode), always respecting the road signs.
However, in my opinion, acceptable for better certain driving.
In the next few days I will try the new tyres with ECO mode.

Tests done on sunny / slightly cloudy days;
I have not yet been able to test on wet terrain or worse;
Saturday it was raining, but I drove for a short distance, not significant.
Comments invited.

Gian, I totally agree that they saved some money where they could and the tyre choice was one of them. Truth be told, manufacturers don't like small cars as the profit margins are very tight, hence Ford pulling the plug on the Fiesta. A classic example of this is the ADO16 which we all knew as the Austin, Morris, Wolseley & MG 1100. It was Britain's best-selling car from 1963 to 1966 and from 1968 to 1971. Anxious to see why, Ford allegedly bought one, and when they deconstructed it they estimated that BMC was losing £50 on every model it sold.
In the C class, VW allegedly had a similar experience with one incarnation of the Golf, whereby it was costing more to build it than they were making on it.
Most buyers will assume that the Manufacturer will fit the best quality tyres from new, when however they will source the best deal that they can get at the time. Tyre manufacturers will scramble to have their tyres on a new car as a cost-effective marketing strategy.

 

[Italy]

@gian
That you consume more with your new tyres is not really surprising.
Tyre manufacturers are always faced with the same equation: increased grip on the ground while keeping fuel consumption as low as possible.
It's almost insoluble, but some manage it better than others. That's why the CONSUMPTION criterion exists and is mentioned when buying tyres.

The Bridgestone is rated C for fuel consumption, whereas the Kuomo is rated B. That's the difference.
The final criterion is noise, which should not be overlooked, especially with an electric or hybrid car.
1 decibel less is important for rolling noise.

The ideal tyre would be A on all criteria and with a very low decibel level....I'm still looking. ..

@DeclanB
I completely agree with what you said.
When a car manufacturer puts out a call for tenders to tyre manufacturers to equip a new model, it's a real price war because the volumes involved are very high and it's a real income for the tyre brand.

Having said that, Kuomo is a good, recognised tyre brand, but it's clear that this particular model fitted to the MG3 is not the best.
My previous Jazz hybrid had the same problem, with original tyres designed to consume as little as possible, but with a soft compound that forced users to change their front tyres every 15,000 km or so.

A long time ago, when you bought a new car, you could ask for the brand of tyres you wanted...those days are gone and some people will regret it, but sometimes it's a way of getting out of your comfort zone and discovering other brands of tyres

 

[gian]

@gian
That you consume more with your new tyres is not really surprising.
Tyre manufacturers are always faced with the same equation: increased grip on the ground while keeping fuel consumption as low as possible.
It's almost insoluble, but some manage it better than others. That's why the CONSUMPTION criterion exists and is mentioned when buying tyres.

The Bridgestone is rated C for fuel consumption, whereas the Kuomo is rated B. That's the difference.
The final criterion is noise, which should not be overlooked, especially with an electric or hybrid car.
1 decibel less is important for rolling noise.

The ideal tyre would be A on all criteria and with a very low decibel level....I'm still looking. ..

@DeclanB
I completely agree with what you said.
When a car manufacturer puts out a call for tenders to tyre manufacturers to equip a new model, it's a real price war because the volumes involved are very high and it's a real income for the tyre brand.

Having said that, Kuomo is a good, recognised tyre brand, but it's clear that this particular model fitted to the MG3 is not the best.
My previous Jazz hybrid had the same problem, with original tyres designed to consume as little as possible, but with a soft compound that forced users to change their front tyres every 15,000 km or so.

A long time ago, when you bought a new car, you could ask for the brand of tyres you wanted...those days are gone and some people will regret it, but sometimes it's a way of getting out of your comfort zone and discovering other brands of tyres

I was not surprised,
I only confirmed that the assigned letters are not random,
in fact I have attached the data sheets of the two tyres for the comparison of A, B, C.
I think the difference in consumption is smaller, I have not yet tried ECO.
But what surprised me most is the difference in stability of the car, I noticed it immediately, with certain confirmation in the following days and (I hope) when they have settled well.
I already have half an idea of the Christmas present: I also change the summer ones, putting the Kumho ones back would destabilize me.
I have already eyed a model (which I attach A A 71 db), to mount on the original rims, today I have an appointment with the tyre dealer, for the TPMS update of the valves, I will ask for confirmation on the goodness of the choice.

 

[securespark]

BRIDGESTONE
BLIZZAK LM-005 195/55 R16 87H
Car: MG MG3 HYBRID+ 2024 ZP22 - ZP2A

Excellent in the wet (A grade)

Yes, I got Bridgestone Weather Control A005 on previous cars for the same reason.

I tend not to do Winter tyres, but am currently a big fan of Mich CC2.

A classic example of this is the ADO16 which we all knew as the Austin, Morris, Wolseley & MG 1100. It was Britain's best-selling car from 1963 to 1966 and from 1968 to 1971. Anxious to see why, Ford allegedly bought one, and when they deconstructed it they estimated that BMC was losing £50 on every model it sold.

Same with XC9003/ ADO15.