Winter's coming ... Heater v EV mode ...

[TWbm]

Thought this might help those of you who are approaching your first winter with an HS PHEV, as the topic came up quite often last year:

The source of heat for the heater is the petrol engine, so if you set the heater to warm up the interior of the car, it will not run in EV mode. That said, the engine warms up pretty quickly compared to conventional cars, so typically after around 3 miles you can try EV and it will eventually work - the heat generated lasts quite well so should be enough for the rest of a short commute. There are no automatic settings for this, you'll just have to try to switch a couple of times and see what happens. Typically with the heater set on Low, the vehicle will stay on EV, but use of the demister will cause the petrol engine to start.

Alternatives that have been mentioned include using the heated seats to warm up, or wearing a big coat.

The cars are also prone to misting up. Using the Aircon as much as possible, will mitigate this, but you may have to judge how you set the cab temperature against the outside temperature.

 

[ajw1100]

For many years I have used a small fan heater on frosty or icy days, left it on for about 10-15 minutes and the car was warm, frost or ice free so no scraping.
I would assume I could leave the cars temp settings as low but the engine would still start as this is probably governed by the ambient outside temperature but at least it may top up the heat already in the cabin.
I find it annoying there is no engine temperature shown on the dash, also only having that small led on the console to indicate EV or ICE operation, you either have to take your eyes off the road or play hit and miss with the button on the console. They would be much more useful than being told your wheels are not straight!

 

[TWbm]

For many years I have used a small fan heater on frosty or icy days, left it on for about 10-15 minutes and the car was warm, frost or ice free so no scraping.
I would assume I could leave the cars temp settings as low but the engine would still start as this is probably governed by the ambient outside temperature but at least it may top up the heat already in the cabin.
I find it annoying there is no engine temperature shown on the dash, also only having that small led on the console to indicate EV or ICE operation, you either have to take your eyes off the road or play hit and miss with the button on the console. They would be much more useful than being told your wheels are not straight!

If the temp is set to low, the ICE stays off, irrespective of the cab temperature, in my experience.
I take your point about the console button but I usually have the power train screen showing whilst driving, so where the power is coming from is obvious.
The 'wheels not straight' warning usually prompts a 'no shit sherlock' type of response.

 

[sky0000547]

If the temp is set to low, the ICE stays off, irrespective of the cab temperature, in my experience.

Had a quick play around on what you have said this morning with outside temp at 12C.

With temp set at LO, the ICE indeed didn’t come on at any of the distribution settings (e.g blow face/feet/feet+windscreen). However as soon as I press the front screen demister on the piano key (far right key), of course the fan power goes to max, but the ICE immediately started. Once I switch back to face or feet blowing I can go straight back to EV. This is good to know now exactly what triggers the ICE with HVAC.

 

[EVGeezer]

Thought this might help those of you who are approaching your first winter with an HS PHEV, as the topic came up quite often last year:

The source of heat for the heater is the petrol engine, so if you set the heater to warm up the interior of the car, it will not run in EV mode. That said, the engine warms up pretty quickly compared to conventional cars, so typically after around 3 miles you can try EV and it will eventually work - the heat generated lasts quite well so should be enough for the rest of a short commute. There are no automatic settings for this, you'll just have to try to switch a couple of times and see what happens. Typically with the heater set on Low, the vehicle will stay on EV, but use of the demister will cause the petrol engine to start.

Alternatives that have been mentioned include using the heated seats to warm up, or wearing a big coat.

The cars are also prone to misting up. Using the Aircon as much as possible, will mitigate this, but you may have to judge how you set the cab temperature against the outside temperature.

There is of course nothing worse for an ICE to run it twice a day for 3 miles, for a duration of 4 to 6 months.........the sump will be filled with 90% fuel/water mixture and 10% oil.

 

[TWbm]

There is of course nothing worse for an ICE to run it twice a day for 3 miles, for a duration of 4 to 6 months.........the sump will be filled with 90% fuel/water mixture and 10% oil.

I'd be interested to to understand this process, could you elaborate?

 

[Lovemyev]

It's a pretty basic cabin heater system then on the HS PHEV.
No PTC heater element in the cabin heater then I assume ???.
Purely reliant on hot water provided from the ICE cooling system then ???.
The system on VAG PHEV's are a much better system, because it has a combination of both a PTC heater and hot water supplied to the cabin heater, from the ICE as the engine warms up.
This gives you the facility to drive in pure EV mode and use the cabin heater with out bringing in the ICE.

 

[ajw1100]

What's a ptc heater? apologies for being a bit ignorant

 

[Lovemyev]

PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) semiconductor heater for the occupant’s compartment of an electric vehicle (EV) or in some plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHEV).
A PTC heater provides a heat source in an EV or sometimes in a combo system in a PHEV.
Basically, it works in a very similar way as a basic electric fire in a domestic setting.
Power to the heater element in the cabin heater, is provided by the HV traction battery and the blower /fan motor is powered by the 12 volt battery.
EV predicted range is reduced when using the cabin heater, because they are a hungry beast to feed !.
There is no real wasted heat produced in a pure BEV, like that in a ICE car.
Wasted heat from the engine / exhaust etc all helps heat the body shell of ICE car.
Not so with BEV.
You are able to reduce the heat provided to the cabin by the heater on an ICE car, as the shell of the car is heated by waste heat from the engine / exhaust etc.
Heat is retained generally longer in an ICE as the components of the car slowly cool down.
With a BEV the cabin will quickly cool as the heat source is turned off.
Just like it does with an electric fire in the house, very little heat retention .

 

[ajw1100]

PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) semiconductor heater for the occupant’s compartment of an electric vehicle (EV) or in some plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHEV).
A PTC heater provides a heat source in an EV or sometimes in a combo system in a PHEV.
Basically, it works in a very similar way as a basic electric fire in a domestic setting.
Power to the heater element in the cabin heater, is provided by the HV traction battery and the blower /fan motor is powered by the 12 volt battery.
EV predicted range is reduced when using the cabin heater, because they are a hungry beast to feed !.
There is no real wasted heat produced in a pure BEV, like that in a ICE car.
Wasted heat from the engine / exhaust etc all helps heat the body shell of ICE car.
Not so with BEV.
You are able to reduce the heat provided to the cabin by the heater on an ICE car, as the shell of the car is heated by waste heat from the engine / exhaust etc.
Heat is retained generally longer in an ICE as the components of the car slowly cool down.
With a BEV the cabin will quickly cool as the heat source is turned off.
Just like it does with an electric fire in the house, very little heat retention .

That is a very informative reply, thank you. I hope this winter to be able to continue with the temperature setting in the car at LOW for as long as possible. An extra layer and a woolly hat may do the job. I would normally plug in a small fan heater to warm up the cabin anyway, that also clears frosty or iced up windows and screen. It's a pity you cannot have the mirrors heated without the rear screen being on which means the ICE starting up. Short cold runs on ICE are not good for the engine or fuel consumption, more so when it's just sitting on the drive wasting fuel and pumping out emissions.

 

[Lovemyev]

That is a very informative reply, thank you. I hope this winter to be able to continue with the temperature setting in the car at LOW for as long as possible. An extra layer and a woolly hat may do the job. I would normally plug in a small fan heater to warm up the cabin anyway, that also clears frosty or iced up windows and screen. It's a pity you cannot have the mirrors heated without the rear screen being on which means the ICE starting up. Short cold runs on ICE are not good for the engine or fuel consumption, more so when it's just sitting on the drive wasting fuel and pumping out emissions.

That is where the VAG PHEV system is better than the MG system.
You can heat the inside of the car on pure EV power from the battery, without car running the ICE at all !.
I had a VW Golf PHEV for over four years, before going full BEV in 2019 with the ZS EV ( Gen 1 ).
The fact that you have to run the ICE on the MG system of the HS PHEV to supply heat to the cabin is only marginally better than having a ICE really ?.
Yes - You can select pure EV mode after the car has supplied sufficient heat to the cabin, but until then you are still burning a lot of fossil fuel.
Fuel consumption is heavy when the engine is cold as we know.
Short trips in the winter with the heater on, is almost impossible to achieve unless without kicking in the ICE.
Driving in pure EV mode in the the depths of winter, is only possible if you are prepared to travel with the heater almost turned off.
Who wants to do that ?.
Heated seats are powered from the 12 volt battery and provide almost instant heat.
The use very little power and are a god send.
Who wants to be driving a car in a large coat and gloves in this day and age !.
This was something drivers had to do in the 1950's for god's sake.

 

[ajw1100]

"Who wants to be driving a car in a large coat and gloves in this day and age !.
This was something drivers had to do in the 1950's for god's sake"

Yip, that's what I remember doing with my 1934 Austin 10.
Those were the days, no heater, no syncro on 1st or 2nd, double de-clutch. Cable brakes. But it did have a starter motor and a dynamo !!

 

[EVGeezer]

I'd be interested to to understand this process, could you elaborate?

An ICE will never reach operating temperature in 3 miles, the consequence of which is that all the water condensation can not evaporate. Same with fuel - since the ICE is mostly in warm-up mode, rich fuel air mixture is necessary, and aggravates the higher propensity of sticking to the cylinder walls. Direct injection makes this even worse. It all ends up in the oil sump, well - in the oil/fuel/water sump.....

Its a little bit discussed here to give you more context: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-dilution-in-non-di.353477/

This was already discussed last winter on this forum: Webasto heater ? JUST INSTALLED :-)

Just for context: The engine oil in an ICE takes a lot longer to reach operating temperature than the coolant......much much much longer. I had several 12 cylinder German made cars, all of which allowed for monitoring oil temperature. They all had oil water heat exchangers to cool engine oil - but the nifty Germans used them also in reverse, to heat up engine oil from the coolant after start-up: It was very pronounced to see the coolant quickly reach around 80 C, and then seem stuck for quite a while (coolant/oil heat exchanger started working in reverse) until coolant and oil temperature crept towards operating range - and nobody in his right mind would floor the pedal until that range was reached.

 

[ajw1100]

Understood and agree, but in our case as MG has not fitted an engine temperature gauge or any other helpful engine related gauge for that matter, how is any driver supposed to make sure the engine is at its correct working temperature? It is pure guesswork, or keep in ICE mode and and hope you get to switch to EV at the correct engine temp.
This car has some very good attributes but also some very noticeable omissions.

 

[Lovemyev]

Other MG models have similar strange Attributes that are very difficult to understand why they have done things that way ???.