Intelligent Octopus Go works like a dream.

ElBobo said:

Incorrect, core hours are 11:30 - 5:30 anything outside of that window is a bonus.

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23:30 to 05:30 in actual fact.

ElBobo said:

If you are forcing the algorithm to give you slots outside of that window when electricity costs more for the supplier to purchase they are going to do something about it.

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I'm not forcing anything, I'm just asking the system to supply me with 'X' amount of energy by a certain time. I dont think it's as straight forward as you think with regard to energy costs. Often when I ask for 30% by 05:30 it will do the whole charge between 19:30 and 23:00, why would it do that knowing that it could do the charge easily between 23:30 and 05:30 IF as you say energy prices were higher outside that window? Every Sunday morning I plug in for a 100% charge by 05:30 the next day and it always starts the charge off giving us 7.5p while 11:00 on Sunday morning giving us time for washing, tumble drying, running the heatpump as well as getting the Sunday Roast underway, again, why would it do this if energy cost more?
If you follow agile pricing you will also see at times very low energy prices (on a few occasions it goes negative, they pay you to use it), how can that happen with your theory?

The point is that cheap energy is much more likely to be available overnight. By saying you need the full 64kWh every time you are forcing Octopus to supply energy outside the period when cheap energy is common. They may have to supply you with high cost energy at a cheap rate to satisfy your false demand. And setting an end time at 05:30 when it isn't required is pure gaming.

My fear is that if lots of people do this Octopus will say something like: we don't have the people to police this, we're losing money on it, we'll just remove the rate.

It's only because MG don't allow API access that we are in this position of manual control. For some other car makes it is all controlled by Octopus.

Finally I don't see setting the actual amount required as an onerous task, it takes a few seconds. Probably less time than it takes to plug my car in!

mg4mc said:

The point is that cheap energy is much more likely to be available overnight. By saying you need the full 64kWh every time you are forcing Octopus to supply energy outside the period when cheap energy is common. They may have to supply you with high cost energy at a cheap rate to satisfy your false demand. And setting an end time at 05:30 when it isn't required is pure gaming.

My fear is that if lots of people do this Octopus will say something like: we don't have the people to police this, we're losing money on it, we'll just remove the rate.

It's only because MG don't allow API access that we are in this position of manual control. For some other car makes it is all controlled by Octopus.

Finally I don't see setting the actual amount required as an onerous task, it takes a few seconds. Probably less time than it takes to plug my car in!

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It isn't onerous if you are the only driver, but if you are not, then it either requires all drivers to be au fait with the Octopus App or someone has to check and set it each night.

When I signed up, it didn't tell me I had to change the percentage each night, so I will try just leaving it alone and see what happens.

Octopus could easily send me a message so say that I am often requesting more than I need, that would prompt me to change behaviour.

mg4mc said:

The point is that cheap energy is much more likely to be available overnight. By saying you need the full 64kWh every time you are forcing Octopus to supply energy outside the period when cheap energy is common. They may have to supply you with high cost energy at a cheap rate to satisfy your false demand.

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Thats not how it works, Octopus supply energy outside of the off peak hours IF they have a surplus of energy available, thats why sometimes they dont offer extra sessions.

mg4mc said:

And setting an end time at 05:30 when it isn't required is pure gaming.

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No it isnt, setting the end time of 05:30 is the end of the off peak time and gives them most flexibility to use my load to balance the grid. For example almost every time when charging is taking place during off peak hours they will typically stop my charge between 00:30 and 02:00, clearly they have high demand during this off peak time and because of my flexibility use it to their advantage.

mg4mc said:

My fear is that if lots of people do this Octopus will say something like: we don't have the people to police this, we're losing money on it, we'll just remove the rate.

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Nonsense

mg4mc said:

It's only because MG don't allow API access that we are in this position of manual control. For some other car makes it is all controlled by Octopus.

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I have the option on my BMW i3 to allow Octopus to control that rather than via my Zappi, Octopus prefer access via the Zappi and in my experience it's much more reliable and much faster response. When I plug in I have my schedule in less than 10 seconds and it often changes, sometimes all of the charging is complete before the off peak hours start EVEN THOUGH I SET THE END TIME TO 05:30

mg4mc said:

Finally I don't see setting the actual amount required as an onerous task, it takes a few seconds. Probably less time than it takes to plug my car in!

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Well that depends on your car and charger setup doesnt it. For example 100% on my BMW i3 is 28kWh whereas 80% in my MG5 Trophy is 45.92 kWh so considering I have OIG setup with the MG5 battery specd, if I need to add 12% to my i3 what do I tell Octopus????? it's not just a few seconds thats for sure.

Octopus do not require you to be 100% accurate with your requests, they dont monitor it so closely. My system also enables all of the heavy house consumers at the same time as the extra sessions are given i.e. Batteries, Immersion, Heatpumps etc all handled by Home Assistant with the blessing of Octopus, theyre happy to be able to control such loads (max out at 25kW), they can and do change the peak time schedules.

I would suggest you email Greg Jackson at Octopus if you dont believe me, I have discussed the operation if IOG from both ends consumer and supplier so that I have a good understanding of what they want to achieve and how I can use it to my advantage. My average electricity unit cost is less than 8p kWh due to my systems operation.

tsedge said:

It isn't onerous if you are the only driver, but if you are not, then it either requires all drivers to be au fait with the Octopus App or someone has to check and set it each night.

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And if you only have one car using the system. More than one car with different battery capacities becomes more onerous.

tsedge said:

When I signed up, it didn't tell me I had to change the percentage each night, so I will try just leaving it alone and see what happens.

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Theres a reason why they dont tell you to change the %, it's because theyre truly not bothered.

tsedge said:

Octopus could easily send me a message so say that I am often requesting more than I need, that would prompt me to change behaviour.

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They could, they wont because theres no need.

I'm not getting into arguments about how you definitively know the IOG algorithm works, but both the IOG video, and the T&Cs state you define the amount to add and an end time. (my bolding)

By requesting 9.5 hours of charging (64kWh / 7kW), you are forcing some slots to always be outside the cheap rate hours.

Interesting that they reserve the right to charge slots outside the cheap period at the full rate, though I haven't heard of that happening.

2.4.1.6 You must record your operating preferences in the Intelligent Octopus app, for example what time you need your electric vehicle ready in the morning and how much energy you would like to add to your vehicle. We'll take your operating preferences into account first and optimise your energy use around that. If it's not possible to charge your car by the time you specify (for example, because the connector capacity is not sufficient for a full charge or because your preferences are updated on too short notice for a full charge) we'll notify you and try to charge as much as possible in the time available.

2.4.1.7 Intelligent Octopus is subject to a fair use policy with a maximum of six hours of managed charging per 24 hours. Should your charging schedule request more than six hours per 24 hours, we reserve the right to charge any incremental usage above six hours at the day rate.

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I just discovered that I get an Octopus notification whenever the car is plugged in and a new charge schedule is created, so actually it is pretty easy to find out what the charge state is on the MG app and then adjust Octopus.

I think it is another case of me thinking it will be more fiddly in practice than it actually is.

I just got paid to top the car up for 4 hours on Octopus Agile, if you are low mileage this is the way to go

Edit: tomorrow's rates just in, free or better from 0100 to 1600!

Have I broken Octopus or have they been at the vino tonight?

I asked for 100% by 12pm tomorrow and it will finish by 9am according to the Ohme app.

tsedge said:

Have I broken Octopus or have they been at the vino tonight?
View attachment 25468

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Looks ok to me......
They have put gaps between 12:00 and 12:30AM, 1:30 and 2:30 AM, 3:00 and 3:30 AM, 4:00 and 4:30 AM, 5:00 and 5:30AM but extended your charging time 6:00 AM giving you 3.5 hrs at 7kW or 26.5 kWh. If your car has the 50.8 kWh battery that would seem to be a good match for the 50% requested.

johnb80 said:

Looks ok to me......
They have put gaps between 12:00 and 12:30AM, 1:30 and 2:30 AM, 3:00 and 3:30 AM, 4:00 and 4:30 AM, 5:00 and 5:30AM but extended your charging time 6:00 AM giving you 3.5 hrs at 7kW or 26.5 kWh. If your car has the 50.8 kWh battery that would seem to be a good match for the 50% requested.

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I have a 64kWh battery. I think it is a glitch in the app, when I reopened the schedule is different.

I was basically referring to how fragmented it was. Maybe that is normal but I couldn't obviously see why they would do it like that (thinking statistically averaging across cars), since if I upped the percentage it defragmented.

Don't get me wrong, I can clearly see why they might need to adjust grid usage hour by hour or even more finely to match supply and demand - what I am not seeing is why on earth you'd put that kind of schedule on an individual car? (as opposed to creating it across the population).

Unless they are trying to learn something about my car?

tsedge said:

I have a 64kWh battery. I think it is a glitch in the app, when I reopened the schedule is different.

I was basically referring to how fragmented it was. Maybe that is normal but I couldn't obviously see why they would do it like that (thinking statistically averaging across cars), since if I upped the percentage it defragmentented.

Don't get me wrong, I can clearly see why they might need to adjust grid usage hour by hour or even more finely to match supply and demand - what I am not seeing is why on earth you'd put that kind of schedule on an individual car? (as opposed to creating it across the population).

Unless they are trying to learn something about my car?

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I'm pretty sure they need to develop further their software thats doing the scheduling, there are glitches in there for sure. I have seen schedules change throughout the evening before any of them have started which led me to using Home Assistant to control the charging my house batteries when the Zappi is running a schedule outside of the off peak time. It does work reasonably well and my average price per kWh is less than 8p which I'm very happy about.

Makes sense, the actual charging the car is working like a charm, so I am quite happy (no solar or battery here so simple setup).

I've seen the schedule change fairly often, and frequently get the gaps. The schedule also changes if you change the percentage required after you plug the car in. I also wonder if the schedules are amended as more users plug in and make demands? For any algorithm, it is going to be a prediction of demand and supply, and things change in the real world.

mg4mc said:

I've seen the schedule change fairly often, and frequently get the gaps. The schedule also changes if you change the percentage required after you plug the car in. I also wonder if the schedules are amended as more users plug in and make demands? For any algorithm, it is going to be a prediction of demand and supply, and things change in the real world.

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Yes they are, they also change the charging rate too.

For me, a dream would be that I didn't have to look at it at all. That it just did it, without having to be monitored and fiddled with.

Maybe there's something to be said for a granny charger and a 3-pin plug after all.

Rolfe said:

For me, a dream would be that I didn't have to look at it at all. That it just did it, without having to be monitored and fiddled with.

Maybe there's something to be said for a granny charger and a 3-pin plug after all.

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You dont have to look at it at all, it does just do it without having to be fiddled with, no problem. It has the ability to give you more if you request an amount of charge outside the off peak hours.

I have an installer coming to see me this week about solar/battery/home charger.

The shine has slightly worn off the reliance on the granny charger, partly because the winter weather dissuaded me from using the rapid charger five minutes walk away, and then they doubled the price of that charger so it's really not attractive any more. Having to think about what I'm doing the day after a long trip because the car won't be back at 100% till evening the following day. Now the weather is getting better I'd like to know I can have the car ready by morning.

Once you get a home charger you start thinking about a variable tariff. Then you think about the "variable" part, and what it might do to the price of your daytime usage, so obviously you start thinking about a home battery and storing cheap night-time power for use during the day.

Then you think about your roof, which in my case looks like this.



(That's Prospero in the drive, Caliban's predecessor. Sob!)

Then you think, well the amount all that would cost would buy a hell of a lot of electricity, and you're back at square one...

Rolfe said:

For me, a dream would be that I didn't have to look at it at all. That it just did it, without having to be monitored and fiddled with.

Maybe there's something to be said for a granny charger and a 3-pin plug after all.

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For me it is plug in and forget. I thought it would require monitoring but it really doesn't, just works.

Rolfe said:

I have an installer coming to see me this week about solar/battery/home charger.

The shine has slightly worn off the reliance on the granny charger, partly because the winter weather dissuaded me from using the rapid charger five minutes walk away, and then they doubled the price of that charger so it's really not attractive any more. Having to think about what I'm doing the day after a long trip because the car won't be back at 100% till evening the following day. Now the weather is getting better I'd like to know I can have the car ready by morning.

Once you get a home charger you start thinking about a variable tariff. Then you think about the "variable" part, and what it might do to the price of your daytime usage, so obviously you start thinking about a home battery and storing cheap night-time power for use during the day.

Then you think about your roof, which in my case looks like this.

View attachment 25534

(That's Prospero in the drive, Caliban's predecessor. Sob!)

Then you think, well the amount all that would cost would buy a hell of a lot of electricity, and you're back at square one...

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You can extend that argument to anything (including buying an EV in the first place).

I don't think the principal reason is to make money - although you will eventually be paid back and then some, but because you want to have solar or a battery or both and be a part of this new power revolution.

Well, I do, but it's still a lot of outlay.