Its amazing how ice drivers are environment experts

rogerco said:
If you are going to quote p/mile you really need to include the capital cost of the vehicle. Currently I'm running at just under £2/mile having done 12,000 miles in 13 months.

My previous ICE which I had for about 2 years till it died ended at about 24p/mile, and the one before that I had from new for 14 years till that died ran out at 18.2p/mile - total lifetime costs including tax, tyres, servicing and £50 back from the scrap dealer at the end.

To match that the MG5 will need to get close to 140,000 miles with mostly free (local solar) leccy. At current rates that means about 11 years, by which time the battery will be getting pretty knackered.

Of course in 11 years the price of petrol might be around that of vintage champagne today plus all of the black swans (positive and negative) flying around just out of sight.

My point being that current p/mile for fuel only is a pretty meaningless comparison - the £5k (minimum) premium that you pay for a new EV rather than equivalent ICE is going to add 5p/mile over 100k miles anyway.
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I think this is confusing total cost of ownership and running costs, and I don't think they can be conflated.
In your example you are including the purchase price of the car to get £2/mile. What if you sell it next week, your figures will change as you will need to use purchase price minus selling price. There are far too many variables in your method to make viable comparisons.
Using your method someone who replaces their car every two years and does high mileage will have have a lower cost per mile than someone who does low mileage and keeps their car for 10 years.
 
My 30kw LEAF cost me 42.9p/mile over 3 years for fuel + capital, no mot, maintenance, cheap servicing twice
 
I think capital cost should be left out of running cost as it's a choice of sorts of you include them it needs to be like for like as if I chose to drive a Roller my cost per mile could be £50 but that would be my choice. Running cost for my 5 are less than 1p per mile and no ICE car will do this and as both fuel costs rise the gap will just get bigger.
 
MarkLynn said:
I think capital cost should be left out of running cost as it's a choice of sorts of you include them it needs to be like for like as if I chose to drive a Roller my cost per mile could be £50 but that would be my choice. Running cost for my 5 are less than 1p per mile and no ICE car will do this and as both fuel costs rise the gap will just get bigger.
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I think it's perfectly reasonable to include capital costs, as long as you are comparing something similar. as that is part of the costs of running a car, and EV's are typically more expensive than their ICE counterparts to purchase. When buying a car, you want to know what's going to be coming out your pocket, not just what you're going to be spending in fuel,
 
Rocinante said:
I think it's perfectly reasonable to include capital costs, as long as you are comparing something similar. as that is part of the costs of running a car, and EV's are typically more expensive than their ICE counterparts to purchase. When buying a car, you want to know what's going to be coming out your pocket, not just what you're going to be spending in fuel,
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You therefore need to also include the cost when you sell (or trade in) which is much higher for a EV over an ICEV
 
Rocinante said:
I think it's perfectly reasonable to include capital costs, as long as you are comparing something similar. as that is part of the costs of running a car, and EV's are typically more expensive than their ICE counterparts to purchase. When buying a car, you want to know what's going to be coming out your pocket, not just what you're going to be spending in fuel,
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Maybe however the 5 is not relatively more expensive with the discounts on offer last year my 5 cost 5k less than a Kia optima 1.6 petrol and would now be costing near 20ppm to run.
Capital cost higher.
servicing cost higher.
running cost considerably higher.
We could all make figures read what we want, so direct comparison is hard to do with the MG5 but close would be the Optima estate it's just a bit bigger but not as nice to drive.
 
Robf said:
You therefore need to also include the cost when you sell (or trade in) which is much higher for a EV over an ICEV
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Rocinante said:
  • .....depreciation is another factor to assess... so there is a lot to weigh up.
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I agree wholeheartedly that this should be taken in to account, (I mentioned in my previous post). However, Is there much evidence that EVs will depreciate slower than ICE cars ? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know, and am short of evidence to back it ? Have the MG EVs been out long enough to get an handle on this ?
 
I have no idea currently secondhand 5s are costing more than I paid for my new 5 in the middle of last year, will that be sustained over say 10 years only time will tell. I made the switch last September and with the price of fuel now I spend 120 per month less over 10 years this would be a saving of 14000 on fuel alone so it's unlikely I will be worse off, if you considering switching just work out your own costs. We are lucky in that I can solar charge for free more then 90% of the time.
 
Rocinante said:
I agree wholeheartedly that this should be taken in to account, (I mentioned in my previous post). However, Is there much evidence that EVs will depreciate slower than ICE cars ? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know, and am short of evidence to back it ? Have the MG EVs been out long enough to get an handle on this ?
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In the present situation I have read that many used EV'S (particularly Tesla's but also have come across MG's) are allegedly selling for more than new ones... :(
 
MarkLynn said:
Maybe however the 5 is not relatively more expensive with the discounts on offer last year my 5 cost 5k less than a Kia optima 1.6 petrol and would now be costing near 20ppm to run.
Capital cost higher.
servicing cost higher.
running cost considerably higher.
We could all make figures read what we want, so direct comparison is hard to do with the MG5 but close would be the Optima estate it's just a bit bigger but not as nice to drive.
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Costs were perhaps different last year (Figures pulled from their website: Kia Ceed Sportswagon from £24,885, MG5 from £28195.)
but I did say "typically", and if the capital costs are cheaper for an EV, all the more reason to include them in the overall costs, as this is what matters to people, how much it will cost them every month. It can be difficult to compare exactly but it's something that needs done, as that is how most people need to buy cars, to see what it is going to cost them.

It is an assessment I'm trying to do myself, and there are so many factors to weigh up especially over an extended period it can be very difficult. For example a 2 year old Fiat Tipo Estate can be had for £13,000, while a 2 year old MG5 is £22,500, that's a lot of fuel to buy before breaking even.
Are those even comparable ? Is that a result of the low depreciation for EVs that's been mentioned, that you would also benefit from once you bought it ? etc etc.
 
Rocinante said:
Costs were perhaps different last year (Figures pulled from their website: Kia Ceed Sportswagon from £24,885, MG5 from £28195.)
but I did say "typically", and if the capital costs are cheaper for an EV, all the more reason to include them in the overall costs, as this is what matters to people, how much it will cost them every month. It can be difficult to compare exactly but it's something that needs done, as that is how most people need to buy cars, to see what it is going to cost them.

It is an assessment I'm trying to do myself, and there are so many factors to weigh up especially over an extended period it can be very difficult. For example a 2 year old Fiat Tipo Estate can be had for £13,000, while a 2 year old MG5 is £22,500, that's a lot of fuel to buy before breaking even.
Are those even comparable ? Is that a result of the low depreciation for EVs that's been mentioned, that you would also benefit from once you bought it ? etc etc.
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It isn't solely about the costs of owning and running - at least, for me.
 
Robf said:
In the present situation I have read that many used EV'S (particularly Tesla's but also have come across MG's) are allegedly selling for more than new ones... :(
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I think that might be the case with a lot of nearly used cars to be fair, not just EV's, due to the long wait lists for new cars, the premium is for "jumping the queue" rather than the EV, but EVs may have a greater enhancement ?
It isn't a new phenomenon for new cars with a wait list. Back in 2002/3 the wait list for a new Mini was around 6 months from memory, so 2nd hand ones commanded the same price as new. I bought new and waited.

Long term depreciation is more unknown, with the general population concerned about batteries once it nears the end of warranty. Not to say there is/will be an issue, but perception can affect values.
 
Harry said:
It isn't solely about the costs of owning and running - at least, for me.
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Absolutely, there are a lot of factors affecting peoples decisions on buying cars, especially when you introduce the EV element, but most have some sort of budgetary constraint that needs taken account of, even if it is not the governing factor.
However, this element of the discussion got kicked off when there was a challenge to the "cheapness" of EVs.
 
Has any body mentioned the cost of pollution? The Enron spill $2.5 Billion and BP oil spill $60 Billion. There's also a couple of wars that have been mainly over oil security, how much did they cost and not just in money. I live in the country side and when I go into the local town I am disgusted at the air quality, perhaps its like smokers who don't realise they stink? ICE based transport time has come we need to move on.
 
Malcolm Anderson said:
Has any body mentioned the cost of pollution? The Enron spill $2.5 Billion and BP oil spill $60 Billion. There's also a couple of wars that have been mainly over oil security, how much did they cost and not just in money. I live in the country side and when I go into the local town I am disgusted at the air quality, perhaps its like smokers who don't realise they stink? ICE based transport time has come we need to move on.
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I suppose the focus on cost in the last couple of pages, has slightly derailed the original sentiment:
" Its amazing how ICE drivers are environment experts"
 
It’s cost me more in petrol over the month I’ve had an ICE courtesy car than the total cost of electric I put in my MG5 in the 6 months I had it before my prang, and the 5 is a much nicer drive!
In environmental terms I think the manufacture and disposal of both ICE and EVs are on a par, but surely the running of an EV is cleaner and living next to a busy road I’d like as many ICE vehicles off the road as possible to clean the air outside , be good to find a cleaner brake lining for trucks too!
 
Gomev said:
What if you sell it next week,
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I'd probably still 'need' a mode of transport so that scenario has many variables.
More to the point what if it got stolen/written off next week (and the insurer found a way not to pay out) - it would have cost me £2/mile.
 
Well as an interesting point to some my 21 mg5 is now worth 2.5 k more than I paid for it so for 9000 miles I have been paid £2410.00 that's a profit of 26ppm if I sold it tomorrow so now I'm getting paid to drive my car 26ppm. Cool I just love numbers you can do lots of different things and show things how you want them to look!
 
I smile passing a fuel garage and there is long line of cars waiting to get some and see the price they are paying 😉
 
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