Anyone noticed now getting extended range?

[smokie]

... and in the winter you'll be lucky to get much at all from a modestly sized array, enough to cover your house usage and a little bit only I imagine. Don't think a battery is much use for car charging but for other use it might be handy (again, more so in the winter).

 

[Padaung]

How much roughly does it cost for installation of enough soler panels to charge a car. Do you need a storage battery.??

I can give you some actual stats on this (on a lot of things except the actual purchase costs for solar and battery, which I appreciate is your actual question!).

I live in a 4 bed house which has the south facing side of the roof covered in 16 solar panels. They add up to form a 4kW array. I'm afraid I can't say how much they cost as they were installed when the house was built, so there is no seperate cost breakdown for them.

From mid-April to mid-October they generate on average between 13-18 kWh per day. Some years the peak av/day generation has been higher than this when we have had a particularly sunny month, it has been as high as 19kWh a small number of times and 21kWh once a couple of years ago.

From mid-Oct to mid-April our average generation per day is between 4-10kWh. We have had an average of 11kWh a couple of times in late Oct/early April, but that is not the norm. The lowest av./day we have had is 3.9kWh one dark December.

These are based on figures from the 4 years we have had our house.

I'm contemplating battery storage to make the most of our solar energy (we only manage to use about 30-50% most days (even in winter) simply because we can't use it at the right time). However, the battery we get would only be enough to power the house enough through the evening and overnight (so possibly a 6kW battery which the solar can mostly charge even in winter, and would cover our house's electricity needs for the majority of the year (ie apart from the darkest 1-3months), and would recharge using the spare solar and/or a cheap(er) overnight tariff. Home battery storage is not cheap, 6kW is about £3-4k as far as I rememeber (2020 prices, so likely has changed now and my memory may be wrong with that price), and that didn't cover installation.

We typically get about £140 back per year for the excess solar that goes to the grid, so don't consider selling that energy as a big earner.

Our car charger does have a solar function built in, but I've been struggling to get it to work properly (hence why I asked earlier in this thread about which charger a previous person used for their solar (I was hoping they may be able to help me!), but they used a different brand to me. Mine is the EO Mini Pro 2 fwiw).

So solar charging, we have got in good sunshine a charge rate of about 3-4% per hour (MG 5 SR, 48kW battery). For reference, when charging off the grid at 7kWh we get a charge of 12% per hour. Thus for a good 8 hours of sunshine in the summer we can get a 20-25% charge into the car. This is free, so I'm not complaining. But it also relies on the car being at home and not used for a commute, so typically we use solar charging maybe once or twice a week in the summer at the most.

In the winter, the equation changes because the car needs a minimum charge rate and the solar may not be able to match that, so then the rate is topped up from the grid. Depending on how much it is topped up by, this can work out more expensive than just using cheap(er) overnight electricity.

So I would say that you would need a very large solar array in order to charge a car reliably, to full capacity and in any sort of realistic timescale. So the cost would be very high, as would the space required. If you wished to then add battery storage so you could store the solar power to charge the car overnight you would need a very large garage and a very large wallet. As a total guess, I'd estimate you're talking £100k to get enough solar and battery storage (and installation) for charging a car each day.

Oh, I live in Oxfordshire. Location does matter as it obviously affects the amount of daylight you get.

 

[Hairyfool]

We typically get about £140 back per year for the excess solar that goes to the grid, so don't consider selling that energy as a big earner

I am curious about this. We get paid irrespective of if we use the power or not. Our payments are in two parts, a Generation fee because what we generate does not have to generated by the grid and a Feed in Tariff which is an amount based on 50% of what we generate. This arises from the inability to measure actual feed in power so the estimate is that we use only half of what we generate. The car means we use considerably more so as our panels have now been paid for effectively we are now being paid in part to charge the car.

 

[MarkLynn]

I am curious about this. We get paid irrespective of if we use the power or not. Our payments are in two parts, a Generation fee because what we generate does not have to generated by the grid and a Feed in Tariff which is an amount based on 50% of what we generate. This arises from the inability to measure actual feed in power so the estimate is that we use only half of what we generate. The car means we use considerably more so as our panels have now been paid for effectively we are now being paid in part to charge the car.

All the new Solar systems are metered with smart meters, and no more feed in tariff that stopped a few years back, best rate you can get is 5pence per kW and that's crap, it has not gone up with the massive rises in electricity cost. So a energy company rip off they pay between 3 and 5pence sell it at 25-35pence they are very happy to see the end of the feed in tariff.

 

[Padaung]

I am curious about this. We get paid irrespective of if we use the power or not. Our payments are in two parts, a Generation fee because what we generate does not have to generated by the grid and a Feed in Tariff which is an amount based on 50% of what we generate. This arises from the inability to measure actual feed in power so the estimate is that we use only half of what we generate. The car means we use considerably more so as our panels have now been paid for effectively we are now being paid in part to charge the car.

We were in the final year of this tariff structure before it was discontinued (ie paid for generation and 50% estimation of use). I've no idea how much you get for the 50% you export as the amounts shifted over time, but by the time we got solar panels the payment per exported kWh was 5.5pence (we get 0.5pence per kWh for generation, but that is at least kindly paid on the full 100% generated /s). Hence we get around £140 per year (for generation and 50% export).

So yes, like you we benefit if we can make use of the solar for either charging the car or a storage battery because we get paid for 50% no matter what.

We have the option to go to one of the new metered rates (with a gen 2 smart meter), but by my calculations that would have paid us about the same as we currently get (or possibly a bit better off if we carry on only using 30-50% of the solar each day as we'd get paid for the extra 20% we would sometimes export) but we'd get less should we manage to use more of the solar energy to charge the car (or a storage battery should we ever get one).

 

[Hairyfool]

We installed ours in March 2015 just before the next decrease occurred so we get 15.92p/kW Generation and 5.57p/kW/2 FIT.

I am just waiting for the 54% increase in payments in line with the amount being charged by the other electricity suppliers

 

[MarkLynn]

With the cost of electricity so high the more you can use the better off you will be. The massive difference between what they pay and what they charge means the pay back for solar could be as low as 7 years now. And the value stays in the property for the upfront outlay.

 

[Harry]

That will depend on the rate you want to charge at 2.5kW 7kW. 12 panels that is the max on the average size detached house will produce just under 5kW at max out put middle of a sunny day. If you could get 18 panels would give you over 7 kW. But this would only produce this for 3-4 hours each sunny day giving you 21-28kw of charge this would cost about 9K if you want batteries for storage it's about £800 per 2.5kW of storage. So I guess the cost will depend on what you want to achieve.

Don't forget that storage batteries can also be charged at night on economy tariff and then discharged during the day saving the difference minus efficiency losses. The discharge of batteries is also seen by the solar meter as solar generation, contributing to FIT.

 

[Solar powered]

I have 40 panels producing 5.5kw maximum as that's what the inverter is limited to. It could produce over 7kw but in was told when fitted that on would hit maximum more often then a bigger inverter would. It's been installed for 8 years now and is a rent-a-roof setup so I get no generation money or FIT payments - called ROC payments where I live in Northern Ireland.
I can see by my generation meter and export meter that I've generated 40,000kw and exported 30,000kw over the 8 years!! I need to make more use of it, hence the MG ZS EV on order. I've already installed my Zappi car charger and linked it up to the solar generation and mains.
The solar panels reduced my electricity bills by 2/3 when installed and cost me zero as they're owned by the rent-a-roof guy. There are many ways to skin a cat, and others will agree that after some years you forget what you're saving as it becomes the new normal.

 

[MarkLynn]

Don't forget that storage batteries can also be charged at night on economy tariff and then discharged during the day saving the difference minus efficiency losses. The discharge of batteries is also seen by the solar meter as solar generation, contributing to FIT.

No more FIT it's all changed

 

[MarkLynn]

Don't forget that storage batteries can also be charged at night on economy tariff and then discharged during the day saving the difference minus efficiency losses. The discharge of batteries is also seen by the solar meter as solar generation, contributing to FIT.

There is no FIT anymore it has been removed, you can sell excess energy but at 3-5 p per kW it's very low return, if you going to install solar to get the best out of it you will need minimum of 2 x 2.4kW storage batteries.

 

[smokie]

How much is the battery set up though? I looked at it a while back and at the time the payback time was huge, it's obviously less now but still significant.

I'm not sure how long prices will remain this high, I understand what's pushed them up but isn't the thinking that they may eventually head downwards again?

And you can really only charge your car solely from solar on the granny cable can't you?

 

[Ozzie1989]

I've been quoted £4k for an 8kw battery system.

Some 7kw wall chargers are solar compatible and will automatically adjust depending on solar output, which is better than just using the granny.

 

[MarkLynn]

A guide to battery system would be 2k for the inverter and £800 per 2.4kW of battery storage. The batteries tend to be 2.4kW units. My electricity bill last month was £20 giving me an annual saving of £300 at the old fixed rate when my fixed rate ends at current estimates the savings will be over £700 per year giving a payback of 10 years, in addition to this if I wanted to sell my property I have been reliable advised the purchase cost of the solar has increased the value of my property.

 

[smokie]

There used to be a time where solar panels were considered to put people off a house due to their appearance. Maybe now they are more widespread, and electricity is more expensive, they have become a selling point.

 

[MarkLynn]

There used to be a time where solar panels were considered to put people off a house due to their appearance. Maybe now they are more widespread, and electricity is more expensive, they have become a selling point.

That is what I thought but the main issue I have been told is when you don't own the solar and actually rent your roof out to a solar company as this can become restrictive, however those who own them outright and can take full use of them are a selling point.

 

[Harry]

There is no FIT anymore it has been removed, you can sell excess energy but at 3-5 p per kW it's very low return, if you going to install solar to get the best out of it you will need minimum of 2 x 2.4kW storage batteries.

Interesting - I have solar (3.42 kW max) with one 2.4kW (1.92 useable) and am trying to work out the value/payback time of buying a second one at £836 incl. VAT. Your thoughts?

 

[MarkLynn]

As the sunny days in the uk is not certain it's a bit variable, if you say 300 days you get a full battery 2kW usable that will be 300kW hours per year x 2 = 600 kW hours at whatever your charged per kW, say .35p x 600 = £210 per year, less than 4 years at this rate. Hope that helps if you know your price per kWh you can do your own calculations. The biggest variable will be the number of days your battery is full. I have 5kW solar and only on the very dull days this past four months have we not charged the batteries fully.

 

[Harry]

As the sunny days in the uk is not certain it's a bit variable, if you say 300 days you get a full battery 2kW usable that will be 300kW hours per year x 2 = 600 kW hours at whatever your charged per kW, say .35p x 600 = £210 per year, less than 4 years at this rate. Hope that helps if you know your price per kWh you can do your own calculations. The biggest variable will be the number of days your battery is full. I have 5kW solar and only on the very dull days this past four months have we not charged the batteries fully.

Thanks, yes I had done some calculations, primarily on charging up the batteries at night from the mains and discharging in the day so saving the price difference in night vs day charges/kWh. That made payback 9 years, without solar contribution. I think you are right that most days I should be able to fully charge a second battery from solar, so payback will be even shorter than 4 years. I will take the plunge. Pity Sunak hasn't knocked down the vat on home batteries..