BBC Panorama Are We Ready For EV's

[Rolfe]

It sparked a train of thought. So sue me!

 

[Ruislip Resident]

“Clearly there is a disparity here which is why public on-street charging is so critical. With up to 60% of UK residents unable to charge their vehicle on their own property, supporting people without driveways has to be the way forward,” said a spokesperson from Connected Kerb."
So many are sitting pretty , but many more aren't

30% have access to no driveway or garage. Even if all of the 70% could not get a 7kw or above home charger they should still all be able to use a granny. The comment is still valid though for the 30% in an area with insufficient public ( non rapid ) charging.

 

[Rolfe]

“Clearly there is a disparity here which is why public on-street charging is so critical. With up to 60% of UK residents unable to charge their vehicle on their own property, supporting people without driveways has to be the way forward,” said a spokesperson from Connected Kerb."
So many are sitting pretty , but many more aren't

Very true. But if the programme was presenting these problems as if they were deal-breakers for everyone and so damning EV ownership in general as a hassle-ridden nightmare, it wasn't balanced.

Balanced would be highlighting how great it is for the people in the favoured group, then pointing out the inequity that others are being shut out by the poor infrastructure - and that these are often people on lower incomes with less ability to afford inflated public charger prices too.

 

[Rolfe]

30% have access to no driveway or garage. Even if all of the 70% could not get a 7kw or above home charger they should still all be able to use a granny. The comment is still valid though for the 30% in an area with insufficient public ( non rapid ) charging.

I thought it was 40% with no ability to charge at their own house, but I honestly don't know. "Up to 60%" sounds a bit high, though I suppose 40% is technically "up to 60%"!

It's pefectly possible to live on a granny charger supposing your electricity supply is robust enough to support it. That's what I'm doing. If you can use a granny charger, but find it isn't fast enough or you're concerned about safety, I can't see why you shouldn't be able to get a wall box if you want one.

It's the people with no way to park their car beside their house so that they can lead electricity to it without that lead leaving their own property who have the problems, and these problems need to be addressed.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

I thought it was 40% with no ability to charge at their own house, but I honestly don't know. "Up to 60%" sounds a bit high, though I suppose 40% is technically "up to 60%"!

It's pefectly possible to live on a granny charger supposing your electricity supply is robust enough to support it. That's what I'm doing. If you can use a granny charger, but find it isn't fast enough or you're concerned about safety, I can't see why you shouldn't be able to get a wall box if you want one.

It's the people with no way to park their car beside their house so that they can lead electricity to it without that lead leaving their own property who have the problems, and these problems need to be addressed.

Regarding wall boxes if you have your own drive. I don't know if this is anti EV urban myth or not but I am sure I have read there will be a limit on how many people on a street could have one even if every house on a street had off street parking. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this.

 

[Rolfe]

Not something I have ever heard of. It would be very hard to justify. Also, it's not something you need planning permission for. Who exactly is going to step in and stop you?

 

[Ian Key]

Regarding wall boxes if you have your own drive. I don't know if this is anti EV urban myth or not but I am sure I have read there will be a limit on how many people on a street could have one even if every house on a street had off street parking. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this.

There could be a grain of truth in this. I seem to remember one of the checks done by E.ON when they were going to install my EV charger was to check with the National Grid that there was capacity in the system supplying my street.
It's a long story but they didn't fit their charger due to a problem their end and I had an electrician fit it instead.

 

[johnb80]

“Clearly there is a disparity here which is why public on-street charging is so critical. With up to 60% of UK residents unable to charge their vehicle on their own property, supporting people without driveways has to be the way forward,” said a spokesperson from Connected Kerb."
So many are sitting pretty , but many more aren't

The numbers are better than you mention, 70% of UK residents DO have off street parking and therefore could have charging points. The other 30% solutions need to be found. Faster charging batteries would be good, if they can get the time down to 10 or 15 minutes for a meaningful charge that would be useful.

 

[johnb80]

Not something I have ever heard of. It would be very hard to justify. Also, it's not something you need planning permission for. Who exactly is going to step in and stop you?

You dont need planning permission but you do need to notify the DNO of your intention and you should get their approval.

 

[Rolfe]

The numbers are better than you mention, 70% of UK residents DO have off street parking and therefore could have charging points. The other 30% solutions need to be found. Faster charging batteries would be good, if they can get the time down to 10 or 15 minutes for a meaningful charge that would be useful.

I wonder about balancing the battery cells though. If that needs doing fairly frequently, won't people still have to take their cars to sit on type 2 chargers while that happens?

My car balances every single time I charge on either a type 2 or the granny charger and takes about half an hour to do it.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Regarding wall boxes if you have your own drive. I don't know if this is anti EV urban myth or not but I am sure I have read there will be a limit on how many people on a street could have one even if every house on a street had off street parking. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this.

I think this is why the government is advocating smart chargers which can be staggered by the electricity supplier to even out demand.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

I think this is why the government is advocating smart chargers which can be staggered by the electricity supplier to even out demand.

My Hypervolt has a random delay on it when I plug it in to start ( never more than about 5 or 6 minutes ). It says the reason is for grid management.

 

[tsedge]

You dont need planning permission but you do need to notify the DNO of your intention and you should get their approval.

I believe the reason for this is so that the DNO can make sure the local substation infrastructure has enough capacity for the peak demand.

In most cases it will since the peak is 4-7pm and we are charging typically in the wee hours. However, if everyone has an EV in a street and does that, the load might exceed the normal peak.

They can't in practice stop you going ahead without them in the loop, they don't have roving inspectors.

My Hypervolt has a random delay on it when I plug it in to start ( never more than about 5 or 6 minutes ). It says the reason is for grid management.

Yes, this is part of it, to stop all the chargers turning on at once - but this more about maintaining grid frequency and having time to bring power stations online to balance supply with demand.

Here's a link to learn more about grid frequency:

What is Frequency? | ESO

Frequency literally means the number of times something happens over a period of time.

www.nationalgrideso.com

I wonder about balancing the battery cells though. If that needs doing fairly frequently, won't people still have to take their cars to sit on type 2 chargers while that happens?

My car balances every single time I charge on either a type 2 or the granny charger and takes about half an hour to do it.

Yes, Rapid chargers cannot balance the pack.

 

[Harry 17]

It sparked a train of thought. So sue me!

Wow!

Anyway, part of your epistle mentioned “So you talk about ways to allow people to charge at the kerb, maybe using their own electricity supply led across the pavement”.

I am interested to know how you would approach this as any trip hazard which is presented by a home Owner / Tenant which subsequently causes a trip or fall will then make the Owner / Tenant liable for any subsequent claim. The local Council can not currently give permission for such practice as they would then become liable.

I agree with you that the third group of people will have major issues to overcome, but cables laid across public footways simply can not be allowed. If you had seen the program, I would have loved to have known your points regarding the lady who completely blocked the footway hence forcing pedestrians onto a live carriageway, and told the reporter “its ok, I have a sign to put out in my windscreen”. Utterly idiotic in my view. Some person with a pushchair / guide dog / white cane / mobility scooter, would be placed in an obvious danger of increasing the potential of meeting live traffic on the carriageway.

 

[Harry 17]

Not something I have ever heard of. It would be very hard to justify. Also, it's not something you need planning permission for. Who exactly is going to step in and stop you?

Not if you are are on a shared electric supply, hence the DNO, as another member has pointed out.

 

[tsedge]

Wow!

Anyway, part of your epistle mentioned “So you talk about ways to allow people to charge at the kerb, maybe using their own electricity supply led across the pavement”.

I am interested to know how you would approach this as any trip hazard which is presented by a home Owner / Tenant which subsequently causes a trip or fall will then make the Owner / Tenant liable for any subsequent claim. The local Council can not currently give permission for such practice as they would then become liable.

I agree with you that the third group of people will have major issues to overcome, but cables laid across public footways simply can not be allowed. If you had seen the program, I would have loved to have known your points regarding the lady who completely blocked the footway hence forcing pedestrians onto a live carriageway, and told the reporter “its ok, I have a sign to put out in my windscreen”. Utterly idiotic in my view. Some person with a pushchair / guide dog / white cane / mobility scooter, would be placed in an obvious danger of increasing the potential of meeting live traffic on the carriageway.

This is not cut and dried and different councils and insurers take different approaches, for example:

Can I run a cable to charge an electric car across the pavement?

Read our guide to charging an EV if you don't have off-street parking, including liability for personal injury claims, the safety implications of using extension cables and how it impacts insurance.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Some councils are trialling special pavement cable gullies, Oxfordshire and Surrey amongst them. There are also special chargers that sit at the kerbside and connect through a gully / under the pavement to the house that are being trialled:

Trojan Hub - Trojan Energy

Add 15 EV on street chargepoints per grid connection without permanent street clutter

trojan.energy

So it actually depends.

 

[Harry 17]

This is not cut and dried and different councils and insurers take different approaches, for example:

Can I run a cable to charge an electric car across the pavement?

Read our guide to charging an EV if you don't have off-street parking, including liability for personal injury claims, the safety implications of using extension cables and how it impacts insurance.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Some councils are trialling special pavement cable gullies, Oxfordshire and Surrey amongst them. There are also special chargers that sit at the kerbside and connect through a gully / under the pavement to the house that are being trialled:

Trojan Hub - Trojan Energy

Add 15 EV on street chargepoints per grid connection without permanent street clutter

trojan.energy

So it actually depends.

Fair play, but if a trip or fall ensued, then the owner of the cable (or person that put it there) would be liable for any claim of injury.

In fairness, I am not too worried about these trial schemes…. I am more worried about vehicles blocking the footway and thus diverting pedestrians in all forms from entering the carriageway. That has to be wrong on any level.

Maybe these trials have safeguards in place to state that no vehicle is to impede any part of the footway. Guess that may work in theory. I do wonder about in practice though.

 

[Rolfe]

Wow!

Anyway, part of your epistle mentioned “So you talk about ways to allow people to charge at the kerb, maybe using their own electricity supply led across the pavement”.

I am interested to know how you would approach this as any trip hazard which is presented by a home Owner / Tenant which subsequently causes a trip or fall will then make the Owner / Tenant liable for any subsequent claim. The local Council can not currently give permission for such practice as they would then become liable.

I agree with you that the third group of people will have major issues to overcome, but cables laid across public footways simply can not be allowed. If you had seen the program, I would have loved to have known your points regarding the lady who completely blocked the footway hence forcing pedestrians onto a live carriageway, and told the reporter “its ok, I have a sign to put out in my windscreen”. Utterly idiotic in my view. Some person with a pushchair / guide dog / white cane / mobility scooter, would be placed in an obvious danger of increasing the potential of meeting live traffic on the carriageway.

This has actually been addressed in other threads. Some councils permit cables across the pavement if protected by suitable cable guards. There are at least two solutions involving grooves carved (by the council) into the pavement with ways to slide the cable in past brushes or a rubber flap (Gul-E and Kerbo). I've seen an arrangement where the cable is run at a height above the pavement sufficient to allow pedestrians to pass underneath.

The main issue as far as I can see with the lady blocking the footway was that she was blocking the footway. That cannot be allowed and is not necessary.

(Someone who lives just up the road from me was given permission by the council to run a granny charger cable across the pavement, with a rubber cable protector over it. I think it was revoked when they put in the village charger though, because I don't see him doing it now.)

The issue is fairly comprehensively thrashed out in this thread, with examples given of the infrastructure solutions currently available.

Finally found a well designed cable protector.

I currently have to charge on-street and I've been searching for something that would protect pedestrians when I charge through the night. Luckily I came across this UK company and bought the 1.5 bundle which is perfect for my needs is quick to fit and pack away afterwards. Ultimately I would...

www.mgevs.com

 

[johnb80]

Yes, Rapid chargers cannot balance the pack.

No chargers balance the pack, it's the BMS that does it.

 

[tsedge]

No chargers balance the pack, it's the BMS that does it.

Yes agreed but I am still right that with DC charging directly there is no balancing.