BMS Update?

[ging353]

My car always fully charges and balances to give a reading of 456v. That works out at 4.22v per cell.

Is 0.02v over the stated 4.2v really an issue? I have read other articles that state maximum voltage can be 4.35v in certain cell types.

MG need to answer the simple question for owners that have the original BMS as to whether they should migrate to the new one.

I have contacted MG for an answer as to whether or not we all need the new BMS Update and guess what.....no reply. Doesn't anyone ever respond to e mails these days?

 

[jamesie]

Another triumph for MG.

 

[ging353]

Nice car.....crap company.

 

[ging353]

I have finally had a response to my E mail From MG. It reads as follows>

Thank you for getting in touch with MG Motor!

With regards to the BMS Update, we can confirm it is only required for some MGs. If your
dealer has checked your vehicle and confirmed the update is not required, then your car
doesn't need an update.

We hope the above helps and thanks again for contacting us.

Kind regards,

MG Call Centre Team.

Obviously they don't seem very worried about the extra charge given to the batteries or if it is doing any harm in the future.

 

[Kithmo]

I have finally had a response to my E mail From MG. It reads as follows>

Thank you for getting in touch with MG Motor!

With regards to the BMS Update, we can confirm it is only required for some MGs. If your
dealer has checked your vehicle and confirmed the update is not required, then your car
doesn't need an update.

We hope the above helps and thanks again for contacting us.

Kind regards,

MG Call Centre Team.

Obviously they don't seem very worried about the extra charge given to the batteries or if it is doing any harm in the future.

That'll do for me, I don't want mine breaking when it's going so well (touches wood)

 

[ging353]

That'll do for me, I don't want mine breaking when it's going so well (touches wood)

Yes thanks.....mine too.

 

[Paulie68]

I have finally had a response to my E mail From MG. It reads as follows>

Thank you for getting in touch with MG Motor!

With regards to the BMS Update, we can confirm it is only required for some MGs. If your
dealer has checked your vehicle and confirmed the update is not required, then your car
doesn't need an update.

We hope the above helps and thanks again for contacting us.

Kind regards,

MG Call Centre Team.

Obviously they don't seem very worried about the extra charge given to the batteries or if it is doing any harm in the future.

This right here is the problem... That pushes it back to the crappy dealers and is as clear as mud!

Example, my own car started with the original 456V BMS, no problems, worked fine. I never got the faulty upgrade, so didn't need to have this rectified in any way. Yet my car was updated to the 449V BMS anyway at service time without any prompting by myself beforehand. (Fine, knowing about batteries, I'm very happy with this!)

So if you are still running 456V, why are you being told you may not need the update, go back to the dealer??! and if you are unlucky enough to be using one of the s***e dealers, then what? They'll just want to get rid of you without updating as it increases the service work time.

There is just no way SAIC/MG have decided to lower the upper charge limit on the battery, "but it only has to be done for some cars" We are stuck dealing with incompetents in MG UK I'm afraid, with just a few dealers doing the right thing (Miles's lot, Luscombes in Leeds, & a few others) Most dealers don't give a stuff beyong selling the car and doing the minimum needed to maximise service profit.

 

[ging353]

I contacted my dealer about it and was given chapter and verse about not taking any notice of what is being said on the forums but that if the car needed to be done MG would tell them so it looks like I'm stuck with the 456v for a while. The truth is these dealers won't do things until MG tell them because they won't get paid by MG for the work.

 

[macd2401]

My way of looking at it is, I'm running a stable (original) BMS. It'll be getting dealer servicing. If it gets updated to the newer BMS while it's in, cool. If it doesn't, no worries. If the battery decides to lunch itself during the warranty period, it's covered. If it hangs on until after, that'll be the best part of 100,000 miles covered, so I won't be upset.

 

[Kithmo]

Maybe the new BMS is only required on inferior cars.

 

[JodyS21]

I have finally had a response to my E mail From MG. It reads as follows>

Thank you for getting in touch with MG Motor!

With regards to the BMS Update, we can confirm it is only required for some MGs. If your
dealer has checked your vehicle and confirmed the update is not required, then your car
doesn't need an update.

We hope the above helps and thanks again for contacting us.

Kind regards,

MG Call Centre Team.

Obviously they don't seem very worried about the extra charge given to the batteries or if it is doing any harm in the future.

Well that response from them is pretty much pointless and doesn't help in the slightest.

Come on MG, is really doesn't take much effort to publish some proper information about this. Yet again, instead it makes them appear to be completely incompetent and totally gives the impression that they do not care in the slightest about their customers. It's pathetic really.

 

[Phil Hayward]

I was going to leave my BMS update until the first service in September after talking to my dealer, but had the update this week when my car went in for a blower resistor.
reduces the maximum cell from 4.21 to 4.17v, I was not concerned as I only charge to 80%

 

[Lovemyev]

I contacted my dealer about it and was given chapter and verse about not taking any notice of what is being said on the forums but that if the car needed to be done MG would tell them so it looks like I'm stuck with the 456v for a while. The truth is these dealers won't do things until MG tell them because they won't get paid by MG for the work.

I have to agree totally with the comments made by @ging353 .
MG only appear to be willing to apply and therefore pay the dealers to install the latest software updates, to cars that are reporting issues that could be linked to either issues caused by “Buggy” software, or issues reported by customers related to achieving anything close to the expected range from their cars.
These issues ( if left unresolved on a badly affected car ) COULD invoke a future HV battery claim that MG would like to badly avoid.
Given that MG must be fully aware that a LOT of their dealerships are just really not up to speed and ready to cope with dealing with, and therefore rectifying, issues on the whole EV software side of things.
Asking SOME of their inexperienced dealer Tech’s to deal with a flood of these cars, that require the upgrade in mass, is asking for trouble IMHO.
Better to “Drip Feed” a smaller number of cars and then deal with the cars that have been infected by installing their corrupted software.
With the smaller number of dealers that they KNOW they can trust to apply these sometimes complicated software update correctly, they are restricting / actively discouraging cars that are functioning correctly, from causing a avalanche of problems for the Tech team at MG to deal with.
I am no way supporting the lack of involvement or commitment by SOME dealers to in resolving customers EV problems.
But we have to remember that there has to be a large percentage of these newly appointed tech’s, that have absolutely no previous experience on working on electric cars.
They may have been a one week training course, but that’s about your lot !.
Dealers like the Chorley Group have gone through this steep learning curve by dealing with other early EV’s like the Nissan Leaf etc.
They have a almost ten year start on the other dealers, no wonder they have no problem attracting customers to their facility !.
There is a huge “Knock On” affect from being able to provide a good level of after sales service to customers.
Dealers who are able to to deal with their customers problems, will naturally receive the future sale and therefore service work of their next car.
Some dealers still don’t get it !.
The likely hood of customers reinvesting in the same brand of car, is heavy dependant on how the after sales people deal with issues on their present car.
Good or bad, after sales service has a massive influence on the decision of customer loyalty, in wishing to remain with that brand.
Anybody can sell a car to a customer, keeping them is the trick !.
A good company will have sold a number of cars to the same person over the years.
They continue to provide future revenue to that same dealer because they feel valued, pure and simple.
Important to remember that customers have a rapidly increasing number of EV’s manufactures now and retaining customer loyalty will be vital for long term growth and prosperity.

 

[JodyS21]

I have to agree totally with the comments made by @ging353 .
MG only appear to be willing to apply and therefore pay the dealers to install the latest software updates, to cars that are reporting issues that could be linked to either issues caused by “Buggy” software, or issues reported by customers related to achieving anything close to the expected range from their cars.
These issues ( if left unresolved on a badly affected car ) COULD invoke a future HV battery claim that MG would like to badly avoid.
Given that MG must be fully aware that a LOT of their dealerships are just really not up to speed and ready to cope with dealing with, and therefore rectifying, issues on the whole EV software side of things.
Asking SOME of their inexperienced dealer Tech’s to deal with a flood of these cars, that require the upgrade in mass, is asking for trouble IMHO.
Better to “Drip Feed” a smaller number of cars and then deal with the cars that have been infected by installing their corrupted software.
With the smaller number of dealers that they KNOW they can trust to apply these sometimes complicated software update correctly, they are restricting / actively discouraging cars that are functioning correctly, from causing a avalanche of problems for the Tech team at MG to deal with.
I am no way supporting the lack of involvement or commitment by SOME dealers to in resolving customers EV problems.
But we have to remember that there has to be a large percentage of these newly appointed tech’s, that have absolutely no previous experience on working on electric cars.
They may have been a one week training course, but that’s about your lot !.
Dealers like the Chorley Group have gone through this steep learning curve by dealing with other early EV’s like the Nissan Leaf etc.
They have a almost ten year start on the other dealers, no wonder they have no problem attracting customers to their facility !.
There is a huge “Knock On” affect from being able to provide a good level of after sales service to customers.
Dealers who are able to to deal with their customers problems, will naturally receive the future sale and therefore service work of their next car.
Some dealers still don’t get it !.
The likely hood of customers reinvesting in the same brand of car, is heavy dependant on how the after sales people deal with issues on their present car.
Good or bad, after sales service has a massive influence on the decision of customer loyalty, in wishing to remain with that brand.
Anybody can sell a car to a customer, keeping them is the trick !.
A good company will have sold a number of cars to the same person over the years.
They continue to provide future revenue to that same dealer because they feel valued, pure and simple.
Important to remember that customers have a rapidly increasing number of EV’s manufactures now and retaining customer loyalty will be vital for long term growth and prosperity.

I understand and agree EVs are new to a lot of dealers, but....
The pretty much only issue dealers/technicians are having to deal with is software related, any problems here are down to MGs terrible computer system - there is no reason whatsoever that they couldn’t have designed a computer system that once plugged into the car did it all without any input from a trained technician.
In leui of updating to a competent computer system, MG could easily provide a simple/clear set of instructions/checklist for the technicians that ensures it’s all at the correct software level/config; it’s probably only a few days work to produce a work flow that a monkey could follow.

It annoys me soooo much! Having been a design & architect consultant for many years, I know that this is not a complicated difficult thing to achieve, compared to other things I’ve worked on its child’s play.

 

[Lovemyev]

I understand and agree EVs are new to a lot of dealers, but....
The pretty much only issue dealers/technicians are having to deal with is software related, any problems here are down to MGs terrible computer system - there is no reason whatsoever that they couldn’t have designed a computer system that once plugged into the car did it all without any input from a trained technician.
In leui of updating to a competent computer system, MG could easily provide a simple/clear set of instructions/checklist for the technicians that ensures it’s all at the correct software level/config; it’s probably only a few days work to produce a work flow that a monkey could follow.

It annoys me soooo much! Having been a design & architect consultant for many years, I know that this is not a complicated difficult thing to achieve, compared to other things I’ve worked on its child’s play.

I agree of course.
But as is stands right now, the software rewrite works, it what is between the car and the computer is the problem as I see it !.
There is an old saying :-
A little knowledge is dangerous !.
How true is that .

 

[Dr Dave]

I understand and agree EVs are new to a lot of dealers, but....
The pretty much only issue dealers/technicians are having to deal with is software related, any problems here are down to MGs terrible computer system - there is no reason whatsoever that they couldn’t have designed a computer system that once plugged into the car did it all without any input from a trained technician.
In leui of updating to a competent computer system, MG could easily provide a simple/clear set of instructions/checklist for the technicians that ensures it’s all at the correct software level/config; it’s probably only a few days work to produce a work flow that a monkey could follow.

It annoys me soooo much! Having been a design & architect consultant for many years, I know that this is not a complicated difficult thing to achieve, compared to other things I’ve worked on its child’s play.

I agree all this could be done, but you would be paying Tesla money. BTW if you use monkeys you are paid peanuts. My dealer has had no problems installing updates, latest BMS and comfort 2 for free, no monkeys working for him.

 

[JodyS21]

I agree all this could be done, but you would be paying Tesla money. BTW if you use monkeys you are paid peanuts. My dealer has had no problems installing updates, latest BMS and comfort 2 for free, no monkeys working for him.

Thankfully I've not needed any updates since buying. I'm not looking forward to using the local dealer here in Milton Keynes though. Your dealer sounds like one of the good ones - who is it?

I'm not talking about over the air updates and all of the technology leading Telsa systems, literally just sorting out their car service update system process to make it work properly - you could pay someone to put a solution in place for way less than I'd say £50k

 

[Dr Dave]

Thankfully I've not needed any updates since buying. I'm not looking forward to using the local dealer here in Milton Keynes though. Your dealer sounds like one of the good ones - who is it?

I'm not talking about over the air updates and all of the technology leading Telsa systems, literally just sorting out their car service update system process to make it work properly - you could pay someone to put a solution in place for way less than I'd say £50k

There is no chance of a solution you propose for 50k. It costs between £3 to £5 billion for a manufacturer to develop a new car. There is nothing wrong with the modular software system MG use, in fact in my experience it has many advantages.

Choose a dealer who has invested in properly trained staff and there are no problems.

I have actually seen a car being updated at my dealer, it is a relatively straightforward process. I also like the clear diagnostic pathways displayed on the laptop which turn from red to green as any faults are cleared in each modular sector.


I am not sure what experience or what information you are relying on for stating MG need to 'sort out their car service update system process'. It's the dealers who just need to follow their training the actual system works very well.

 

[JodyS21]

There is no chance of a solution you propose for 50k. It costs between £3 to £5 billion for a manufacturer to develop a new car. There is nothing wrong with the modular software system MG use, in fact in my experience it has many advantages.

Choose a dealer who has invested in properly trained staff and there are no problems.

I have actually seen a car being updated at my dealer, it is a relatively straightforward process. I also like the clear diagnostic pathways displayed on the laptop which turn from red to green as any faults are cleared in each modular sector.


I am not sure what experience or what information you are relying on for stating MG need to 'sort out their car service update system process'. It's the dealers who just need to follow their training the actual system works very well.

I've not seen the service update system, I'm basing everything on only from what I've heard/been told about it.
It relies on the technicians having to do updates in the correct order and to know to do certain firmware and config changes. It very clearly isn't a nice straightforward process otherwise numerous people on here wouldn't have cars with problems caused by firmware versions and configurations being all over the place and not at the correct levels.
Yes indeed all of the technicians should be trained to follow the procedures, which clearly they are not, however there's no need for them even have any knowledge other than to click 1 "update all" button.
There is no reason whatsoever that the "relatively simple logic" that they expect the technician to have (and have the time to follow) could not be built into the update system, such that you plug the car in & it gets all the current version/config data and then updates it all correctly with no intervention/knowledge from the technician.

All computer systems are ideally designed to have the minimal manual input and therefore chance for problems. If simple procedural logic can be put into writing for a person to follow, it can easily be built into the computer system to all do itself.
Workflow type systems have been used for years now to get round old system designs that are not easy to change. You just build the new workflow system on top of the existing old/flawed system.
I am positive that you could effectively put a simple system over the top of their existing application that controls the technician issuing the commands.
It would not take much cost/man hours to sort this out.

A dozen different components each with some config data, is such an incredibly simple configuration/version system to have an automated management/update system for.

 

[jamesie]

Agree with you jody. If Tesla and others can do OTA updates then MG should be able to automate updates when done at the dealership.