Can there ever be enough DC chargers?

[Rolfe]

No, not a silly question. Think about it.

Every ICE car needs to go to a filling station to refuel at the pumps, every time it needs fuel. Things might get a bit busier at certain times, such as after work, and on holdays when a lot of people are driving further than they normally do. But overall, there's no huge discrepancy. The filling stations have to be able to supply all the cars on the road, all the time.

Not so with EVs. Most owners AC-charge at home or at work. Even owners without home or work charging are likely to be using AC chargers more than DC, if they can possibly manage it. At normal times, the DC infrastructure only has to cope with the minority of cars that are being driven further than their range in one day, and the cars that don't have practical access to convenient AC charging routinely.

Then what? Come holiday time, and I'm thinking particularly of 23rd December this year (O God, what have I done?), every EV in the land lets go of its wall-box teat and sets off across country to visit its nearest and dearest. And it wants DC charging to be able to do that. Now, the infrastructure doesn't just have to cope with a bit of a blip due to unusually high mileage, but has to cope with an influx of cars that never see it on a daily basis.

Can there ever realistically, economically, be sufficient capacity in the system so that these peak surges can be accommodated without people having to wait for ages?

 

[dhoogland]

I'm pretty new here but I already picked up that you're quite stressed for that one Christmas trip. I think it's not needed at all and feel like you're overthinking it. I mean, relax!

Sure , at that time there are probably more people on the road but how many people would really be making a trip that is so long that they would need DC charging along the way? I think not many people. Some people will be driving a little further than normal and the days before Christmas the AC chargers might be a little more populated, for people to leave with a full SoC but that's all I think will happen. AC charging spots around towns might also be a little bit more busy than normal, but who wants to park next to a DC charger and spend 30 mins charging with a car full of family? I think it'll be allright!

 

[Gadget Geek]

Bank holidays in Weston super Mare, I've seen queues of gas guzzlers at Tesco, waiting to fill up to get back home.

 

[Rolfe]

Watching too much MacMaster. It can be addictive.

Nevertheless, I don't think he paid these other EV drivers to drive in to the charging stations in front of him. I think he deliberately chose a date or dates when they'd be busy anyway. In the case of the current diatribe, the school half-term week - probably the beginning or the end. Sneaky, if you've agreed to a race you can't win, and want to lose as spectactularly and stressfully as you can. But it's a natural phenomenon.

More to the point though, the press reports of long queues of Teslas at Tebay Southbound last Christmas Eve. Tebay Southbound would be right up there in my list of favoured charging stops - except there are no chargers at all there for us plebs, and (understandably) Tesla have not opened that one to non-Teslas.

If Christmas Eve even has Teslas queueing, it's a thought. How much redundancy in the system do we really need to allow people to charge and get on their way at times like this, when the DC network suddenly has to cope with far larger numbers of cars than it usually sees in a week?

 

[Themist0]

I’m sure ‘the sun’will find one place where one person has to queue for more than 5 minutes and make a big splash about it… EVs aren’t perfect but the infrastructure will grow with demand, as will the technology of longer range etc… early adopters (ok it’s been going for 10+ years) will have to suffer some slight inconvenience on occasion, at least we don’t have to have a person to walk in front of us with a red flag

 

[Rolfe]

Hah, yes! I'm just wondering about the sheer amount of redundancy that might need to be built in so that the infrastructure can cope with peak surges that are likely to be an order of magniture different from the peak surges that hit petrol stations. And even they get overwhelmed sometimes.

Still, next time there's a tanker drivers' strike or a petrol shortage, how smug will we be?

 

[Ejaydee]

at least we don’t have to have a person to walk in front of us with a red flag

.....nor do we leave a cloud of fumes and smoke behind us for others to cough and splutter on.

next time there's a tanker drivers' strike or a petrol shortage, how smug will we be?

Very smug I would think

 

[Shrink Proof]

More to the point though, the press reports of long queues of Teslas at Tebay Southbound last Christmas Eve.

That would be the same section of the press that considers this to be "news", would it?

 

[Gomev]

No there can never be enough DC chargers. Well alright maybe one day, but not now. The trouble is if we think in the 'now', and not in the 'ongoing'
At the moment it's only the minority of cars on the road that need them, but imagine at some point in the future when all those cars we see on the motorway etc. are electric. Just how many chargers will be needed at each service station.
So for now we need more, to at least keep pace with sales of new EVs and that will not change until saturation point of both EVs and chargers.
I would say things are progressing nicely, expansion of chargers is at a pace, it just doesn't always feel like it because of the expansion of EVs but we will get there.
Another spanner in the thinking works of course is contrarily will there be too many chargers when all the EVs have a range of 600 miles like a diesel.
Tricky and my brain is starting to hurt.

 

[Gadget Geek]

At peak holiday seasons, trains and coaches put on extra services to cope with the demand. What motorway services need are these mobile chargers in a container with a large battery which can be dropped in place to add extra capacity when needed.

This would negate the need for expensive grid infrastructure, and could be rented for a few days before being moved elsewhere.

Bjorn did a video on the factory where they were making them. Also, I believe the Fully Charge show use them at their live shows.

 

[Gomev]

At peak holiday seasons, trains and coaches put on extra services to cope with the demand. What motorway services need are these mobile chargers in a container with a large battery which can be dropped in place to add extra capacity when needed.

This would negate the need for expensive grid infrastructure, and could be rented for a few days before being moved elsewhere.

Bjorn did a video on the factory where they were making them. Also, I believe the Fully Charge show use them at their live shows.

An interesting idea, but will there be enough to put one in every location needed at Xmas, first week of school holidays etc.. If so, why not just leave them there.

 

[Tommy]

Number of petrol stations in the UK ... approx. 10,000
Number of charging devices in the UK ... approx. 50,000 (in 30,000 locations) ... and growing.

Gridserve are rolling out new locations, for example. Sandbach is particularly welcome.

Consisting of a minimum of six 350kW-capable chargers each, the first two of the six new Electric Super Hubs have launched at Watford Gap North and South (M1), and the following other locations will open soon – Annandale Water (A74(M)), Bothwell (M74), Chester (M56), Sandbach (M6).

Things will get better, but maybe not in time for your Christmas trip.

I tend to go for the unfashionable service stops - like Lymm Truck stop on the M6, never had to wait to charge, there are 3 dual chargers.

Remember, there aren't enough petrol pumps to service all the ICE cars in the UK if they all needed to buy fuel at the same time ... same with DC chargers and EVs.

Good luck

 

[Themist0]

If you are thinking of using your granny chargers whilst sipping sherry over mince pies with your granny, then I suggest you give it a try if you haven’t done so already

 

[Shrink Proof]

If you are thinking of using your granny chargers whilst sipping sherry over mince pies with your granny, then I suggest you give it a try if you haven’t done so already

No, don't bother trying. Take it from me, sherry is utterly vile.

 

[Gadget Geek]

An interesting idea, but will there be enough to put one in every location needed at Xmas, first week of school holidays etc.. If so, why not just leave them there.

Cost and time.

 

[Rolfe]

If you are thinking of using your granny chargers whilst sipping sherry over mince pies with your granny, then I suggest you give it a try if you haven’t done so already

I charge on the granny charger all the time anyway. I also have a heavy-duty extension lead to take with me.

Sherry is fine (with, in fact, my friend's brother and his family), but I'll be driving.

 

[Rolfe]

Number of petrol stations in the UK ... approx. 10,000
Number of charging devices in the UK ... approx. 50,000 (in 30,000 locations) ... and growing.

Gridserve are rolling out new locations, for example. Sandbach is particularly welcome.

Things will get better, but maybe not in time for your Christmas trip.

I tend to go for the unfashionable service stops - like Lymm Truck stop on the M6, never had to wait to charge, there are 3 dual chargers.

Remember, there aren't enough petrol pumps to service all the ICE cars in the UK if they all needed to buy fuel at the same time ... same with DC chargers and EVs.

Good luck

These charger stations include the type 2 and destination chargers though, don't they? We're talking about DC charging for people on the move. And it's true that EVs need a lot longer on a charger to pick up the range a petrol (or even more so, diesel) car will get in five minutes.

Gridserve are putting in chargers six at a time. (With no shelter, booo.) I've seen them at Burton-in-Kendal and Cherwell Valley. They had started work at Annandale Water in May and the chargers are still not operational. Ditto Tebay southbound. Burton-in-Kendal was fine, but it was my last stop on the way home and it was 7.30 in the evening. Hardly anybody there. Cherwell Valley was still a bit difficult despite everything. At about 5.30 I just went on to one of their old 50 Kw chargers as the new 350 Kw ones seemed busy. On the way back, lunchtime, I got on a 350 one OK, but there was a constant churn.

While these six-at-a-time Gridserves are welcome, I think they turn into a bit of an EV magnet, and six is not a lot. And Todhills, Southwaite, Killington Lake and Forton are just deserts. People on a motorway journey just want to pull in to a service station, get charged at the fastest rate their car will take, and get on. They don't want to crawl round suburban streets looking for supermarket car parks or village leisure centres.

We're still in the early adopter stage. We're enchanted by our new toys and we quite like the feeling of pioneering the future and navigating the difficulties. But when you come across the stories of "I went back to an ICE car", the reason always seems to boil down to a bad experience with the public charging network. If the government are serious about getting the general public into EVs, they have to do something to straighten this out.

 

[Archev]

An interesting idea, but will there be enough to put one in every location needed at Xmas, first week of school holidays etc.. If so, why not just leave them there.

Look, what about repurposing the guy who can deliver anywhere, on time and free !!??
Yes I’m talking about the fellow with the sleigh - stick a huge battery in it and we’re sorted - and it runs on carrots so no burning stuff there. It would also give them year round employment.

 

[Rolfe]

Another spanner in the thinking works of course is contrarily will there be too many chargers when all the EVs have a range of 600 miles like a diesel.
Tricky and my brain is starting to hurt.

It's going to be a long time before that happens though. The cars we have now are going to be around for a fair few years yet. Maybe a lot of them will be bought by people who only want to do local drives, or as second cars, but some will always want to go out on the road.

And chargers have a lifespan too. If usage declines because range increases, they'll just decomission old charger sites rather than upgrading them with new devices.

 

[jackois]

Back when the first ICE cars were made, I suspect had they had the internet you'd have had threads reading very similar to this... and 'big horse' naysaying the new technology...