Dead car / flat 12 volt battery 😰

[Alb]

I'm sure it gives you a warning if you lock the car and leave the lights

I refreshed my memory on this today.
The car sounds a loud repeated warning bong and puts the message "Lights On" on the dashboard as soon as you shut down so it all happens prior to locking up.

 

[Archev]

That sounds about right to me ?.
The ZS EV is similar.
In accessory mode is battery state, then in full driving mode, the traction battery is providing about 14 volts to charge the 12 volt battery .

That has a reassuring ring to it, thankyou Lovemyev. I’ll post any garage technician’s findings next week.

I refreshed my memory on this today.
The car sounds a loud repeated warning bong and puts the message "Lights On" on the dashboard as soon as you shut down so it all happens prior to locking up.

thanks Alb. I’m going to ask them to check all that at the Dealership. I’m pretty certain there were no warnings but I’ll be monitoring it with not a little paranoia for the foreseeable.

 

[Hairyfool]

As has already been said if the battery voltage was that low then there is a high probability the battery has suffered some damage, primarily this would show up as reduced charge capacity..

The problem with that is all voltages will appear normal, only a discharge test will show issues with capacity.

I would also consider using a dedicated mains charger on the battery. Most people don't realise how long it actually takes to fully charge a flat battery with a common mistake of "a short run" being enough. There is some discussion about the best charge current for a battery but typically it should be around C/5 to C/10 (C is the actual battery capacity). So a typical 85Ah battery needs between 8.5 to 17 hours charging if it is to be done correctly

 

[Archev]

As has already been said if the battery voltage was that low then there is a high probability the battery has suffered some damage, primarily this would show up as reduced charge capacity..

The problem with that is all voltages will appear normal, only a discharge test will show issues with capacity.

I would also consider using a dedicated mains charger on the battery. Most people don't realise how long it actually takes to fully charge a flat battery with a common mistake of "a short run" being enough. There is some discussion about the best charge current for a battery but typically it should be around C/5 to C/10 (C is the actual battery capacity). So a typical 85Ah battery needs between 8.5 to 17 hours charging if it is to be done correctly

Yes it’s all a bit concerning really. Thanks for the info Hairyfool. I’m hoping the dealer can give me some answers about all that.

 

[biffo]

Yes it’s all a bit concerning really. Thanks for the info Hairyfool. I’m hoping the dealer can give me some answers about all that.

If you feel inclined to buy a battery charger, there are a review of mains powered here

Best battery chargers | Auto Express

Which car battery charger is best for you? We test a number of popular options to find out

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[Lovemyev]

If you feel inclined to buy a battery charger, there are a review of mains powered here

Best battery chargers | Auto Express

Which car battery charger is best for you? We test a number of popular options to find out

www.autoexpress.co.uk

I have one of the CTEK units that has the fly lead connection option.
Save’s using the crocodile clamps.
They are still supplied with the unit though.
There is a small loom, with two eyelets on one end.
The red eyelet lead is attached to the positive post of the 12 volt battery and the black eyelet lead is attached to an earth point on the body shell.
The other end of the small loom has a two pin connector that clips straight into the lead from the CTEK.
It can be connected the car in seconds and no fear that the clamp will “ Ping” off !.
I like this idea myself ?.

 

[Alb]

I have this arrangement on my other car:

 

[Archev]

I have one of the CTEK units that has the fly lead connection option.
Save’s using the crocodile clamps.
They are still supplied with the unit though.
There is a small loom, with two eyelets on one end.
The red eyelet lead is attached to the positive post of the 12 volt battery and the black eyelet lead is attached to an earth point on the body shell.
The other end of the small loom has a two pin connector that clips straight into the lead from the CTEK.
It can be connected the car in seconds and no fear that the clamp will “ Ping” off !.
I like this idea myself ?.

If you feel inclined to buy a battery charger, there are a review of mains powered here

Best battery chargers | Auto Express

Which car battery charger is best for you? We test a number of popular options to find out

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Thanks guys I’m giving those units some consideration. I’m taking this battery problem hard . In fifty odd years of owning old petrol vehicles and some old and a few new diesels I’ve never had a problem with a battery. I’ve needed and bought many tools for various jobs on vehicles but I’ve never had a charger. Guess I’m lucky I’ve got away with it so long ?

 

[biffo]

Thanks guys I’m giving those units some consideration. I’m taking this battery problem hard . In fifty odd years of owning old petrol vehicles and some old and a few new diesels I’ve never had a problem with a battery. I’ve needed and bought many tools for various jobs on vehicles but I’ve never had a charger. Guess I’m lucky I’ve got away with it so long ?

I rarely use one of my cars, but had to replace the battery during lockdown - luckily it's a manual so I just let it roll down the hill to bump start. These pesky automatics are more troublesome

 

[Lovemyev]

Thanks guys I’m giving those units some consideration. I’m taking this battery problem hard . In fifty odd years of owning old petrol vehicles and some old and a few new diesels I’ve never had a problem with a battery. I’ve needed and bought many tools for various jobs on vehicles but I’ve never had a charger. Guess I’m lucky I’ve got away with it so long ?

Same here !.
Never needed a charger in the past, but decided to invest in a charger when we moved to a full EV two years ago.
A bit of a “Belts and Braces” approach.
Here are a few items I have built up to include with the ZS EV.
Space saver spare wheel / type 2 charging cable / Battery booster pack / Smart 12 volt battery charger.
Not totally necessary, but my OCD likes a “Back Up” plan .
P.S. - If you are considering buying a 12 volt charger, ensure it is a modern “Smart” type charger.
The older type chargers ( like I have in my faithful garage locker ) are not compatible with the newer types of batteries.

 

[busa]

If anyone is thinking of a battery charger/conditioner then please look at an Optimate, I've used them for over 20 years now

 

[Ozzie1989]

As a cheaper alternative I can recommend this which I bought in a pickle when my trusty old Optimate stopped working. Never bothered replacing it as it's done everything I've asked of it and helped out many friends/colleagues...

AA Smart Charger 4a

Does 6v and 12v and caters for lithium batteries which is unusual in this price range.

Also made up a 12v socket attachment for it which I use on my older vehicle, saves digging the battery out from under the seat! Obviously the 12v socket must be permanently live for this to work.

 

[Archev]

Same here !.
Never needed a charger in the past, but decided to invest in a charger when we moved to a full EV two years ago.
A bit of a “Belts and Braces” approach.
Here are a few items I have built up to include with the ZS EV.
Space saver spare wheel / type 2 charging cable / Battery booster pack / Smart 12 volt battery charger.
Not totally necessary, but my OCD likes a “Back Up” plan .
P.S. - If you are considering buying a 12 volt charger, ensure it is a modern “Smart” type charger.
The older type chargers ( like I have in my faithful garage locker ) are not compatible with the newer types of batteries.

Excellent - I have a type 2 cable and a space saver spare wheel but it’s all
superb advice and help from all you very kind folks. I’ve rushed off the following letter :-
Dear Santa,
I really love my new slippers, they are superb, and the little MG Teddy bear sitting on the toes is fantastic.
But can I make use of your exchange policy and change them please. I want a booster pack and a charger that’s lots smarter than me. I’ve been a really good boy and haven’t used a drop of diesel for nearly two years.
Thankyou.

 

[deviousrich]

think after this thread a small Li booster like this (next time Lidl have them in) might get a space in the boot of the car.
Given its only a 12v start that needs a kick, its not cranking an ICE, even a small booster should be a good get-outof-jail gadget IMHO

Ultimate Speed Portable Jump Starter with Power Bank £44.99 instore at Lidl | hotukdeals

www.hotukdeals.com

 

[Hairyfool]

Because this an EV the battery never has to start an engine It is a little bit of an anachronism that they fit a lead acid battery when it CCA capacity will never be used. Probably used because it is an off the shelf solution. With a bit of thought it should be possible to provide power to the lights but to protect the function of activating the vehicle.

Back when we 1st considered an EV we went to have a look at a Kia Soul (eventually dropped because of the boot size) at a dealership. They had left it so long the battery was so dead central locking didn't work and there was no way the sales rep could even open the doors for us to look at it. Once the rep admitted he didn't know much about EVs we left.

 

[Spinynorman]

As has already been said if the battery voltage was that low then there is a high probability the battery has suffered some damage, primarily this would show up as reduced charge capacity..

The problem with that is all voltages will appear normal, only a discharge test will show issues with capacity.

I would also consider using a dedicated mains charger on the battery. Most people don't realise how long it actually takes to fully charge a flat battery with a common mistake of "a short run" being enough. There is some discussion about the best charge current for a battery but typically it should be around C/5 to C/10 (C is the actual battery capacity). So a typical 85Ah battery needs between 8.5 to 17 hours charging if it is to be done correctly

Is there any problem in using a charger/maintainer device that’s directly connected to the 12v battery without disconnecting the battery from the car’s electrics? I know it’s safer but once the battery is disconnected, how do you lock the doors? Surely this would need to be done manually plus the alarm/immobiliser would also be disabled. I know the 12v gets charged if you use the granny charger but I have to hang this out an open window, as I have no external 13A plug installation. Not only cold but a security nightmare as I can’t lock the window, whereas a charger/maintainer cable fits through the window in its ‘Ajar’ position, which is lockable.
?BTW if the car is in ready mode, the traction battery will charge the 12V without having to go for a run - I think we’re all used to doing this when we had ICE cars, as the generator/Alternator only functioned when the car was moving, as it was connected to the crank shaft of the engine.

 

[Alb]

If you want to do a once only long charge on a flat battery the simplest solution is to remove the battery from the car and take it in the house. That way the house and car are secure.

 

[Ozzie1989]

Is there any problem in using a charger/maintainer device that’s directly connected to the 12v battery without disconnecting the battery from the car’s electrics?

In short no.

Modern 'smart' chargers ensure a smooth and regulated output voltage and current.

It was old battery chargers that relied on simple circuits to regulate power/current that, if a fault occured could fry electrics in the vehicle, usually with over voltage.

Obviously if you take the battery off the vehicle, with no background power draw, the charger will get a more accurate idea of the battery's condition. In reality though it has minimal effect in the overall scheme of things.

 

[Kithmo]

Is there any problem in using a charger/maintainer device that’s directly connected to the 12v battery without disconnecting the battery from the car’s electrics?

I would say no problem as long as the 12v is not really flat and the charger is limited in output.
I have a CTek 3.8A charger/conditioner that I used to use on my Prius, I chose a 3.8A because the handbook recommended not charging the 12v at more than 4A whilst on the car to protect its circuits.
The ZS doesn't mention anything in the handbook about a maximum Amperage, in fact the way it explains starting via booster cables, it seems pretty much the same as an ICE car.
I put my charger on the ZS during the 2020 Winter, to maintain the battery when I wasn't using the car much and it went through the process within an hour, which used to take 4-6 hours on the Prius, so I assume the 12v was pretty good. I haven't used it since then because I started using the car every day shortly after and the car seems to be pretty much looking after the 12v by itself.

 

[Lovemyev]

Is there any problem in using a charger/maintainer device that’s directly connected to the 12v battery without disconnecting the battery from the car’s electrics?

No - Is the quick answer.
My CTEK Smart charger has the option to purchase a pair of fly leads, that can be left attached to the positive and negative sides of the battery.
( I will attach a picture is I can )
The charger can then be attached safely onto the car in seconds.
It's a better fit than using the standard crocodile cramps I find.
The also have also purchased the extension lead, that can be used in-line between the fly leads and the smart charger.
Therefore the charger is not left under the bonnet of the car, I can have it plugged into a outlet on the wall and then the charger sit's on a table below.
Just the long extension loom, running from the charger to the fly lead easy connect on the battery.