Driving Licenses - Automatic / Manual

[Rocinante]

I wonder how the driving lessons/test is going to change as Electric cars become more prevalent and what problems may arise.

The majority of UK drivers learn to drive a manual and get the appropriate license, and then proceed to buy an old cheap low powered runabout which is inevitably manual. However as we charge towards the ban of sales of new ICE vehicles in 2030, presumably, the availability of manual's will become smaller till eventually, they become unavailable.

As instructor cars tend to be newer cars, Instructors will then be forced to buy automatics, but new drivers will still be looking to buy old cheap low powered runabouts which are inevitably manual once they have passed their test.

How will this work, will instructors need to keep aging manuals on the road to teach manual gearboxes ? Will the manual/automatic differentiation disappear in the license (I think the Americans, don't differentiate), and you'll need to figure it our once you pass your test and buy your car ? Or will new drivers be forced to buy automatics ?

 

[ady]

I wonder how the driving lessons/test is going to change as Electric cars become more prevalent and what problems may arise.

The majority of UK drivers learn to drive a manual and get the appropriate license, and then proceed to buy an old cheap low powered runabout which is inevitably manual. However as we charge towards the ban of sales of new ICE vehicles in 2030, presumably, the availability of manual's will become smaller till eventually, they become unavailable.

As instructor cars tend to be newer cars, Instructors will then be forced to buy automatics, but new drivers will still be looking to buy old cheap low powered runabouts which are inevitably manual once they have passed their test.

How will this work, will instructors need to keep aging manuals on the road to teach manual gearboxes ? Will the manual/automatic differentiation disappear in the license (I think the Americans, don't differentiate), and you'll need to figure it our once you pass your test and buy your car ? Or will new drivers be forced to buy automatics ?

Good question, my wife and I was discussing this last week, our 2 girls will be learning to drive in 4&5 years time, by then my MG ZS EV ordered 8th November may have arrived, so do we give lessons in mine, or my wife’s ICE car. I suppose learning in a manual, may be a bit of an advantage if the law changes and the government puts 2030 back by a couple of years.

 

[Rocinante]

Good question, my wife and I was discussing this last week, our 2 girls will be learning to drive in 4&5 years time, by then my MG ZS EV ordered 8th November may have arrived, so do we give lessons in mine, or my wife’s ICE car. I suppose learning in a manual, may be a bit of an advantage if the law changes and the government puts 2030 back by a couple of years.

If the test/ license requirements don't change I would think it would be a case of looking at the car market and seeing what their first car is likely to be. If the budget makes it look like they'll be driving an old 1.0L manual Corsa, once they pass their test that sets your requirements. As you say though, even if it does look like the budget would cover something electric, it would limit their options. With current new electric sales around 20% (I think) that still a lot of 4/5 year old ICE cars on the street when they would be learning to drive.

 

[Alb]

Interesting point.
I've not come across anyone who has taken their test in an EV but there must be some out there!

 

[ady]

If you learn in an EV, would most of the safety features need to be turned off, so the learner uses their knowledge they are being taught and instinct, for example looking over the right shoulder before pulling out, or overtaking, because of the blind side alert, also the lane departure alert?

 

[bwanamdevu]

I think that I posed a question about this a while ago on another site.

If you pass your test on an automatic, as a U.K. citizen you can’t legally drive a manual car however, if you are an overseas resident who has only driven automatics, you can come to this country and using an International Driving Licence, hire a manual here and legally drive away!

I have seen You Tube videos of U.S. drivers struggling to cope with a manual hire car! Allowed for them but not for us!

 

[Iain]

I suspect there may be other issues regarding cars with auto hold and release electronic hand brakes when testing hill starts.

 

[Rocinante]

Interesting point.
I've not come across anyone who has taken their test in an EV but there must be some out there!

"The UK’s first learner driver to complete the practical driving test in an electric vehicle has passed first time, driving a Vauxhall Ampera. February 7, 2013"

Diesel&EcoCar Magazine | Ampera in driving test first

The UK’s first learner driver to complete the practical driving test in an electric vehicle has passed first time, driving a Vauxhall Ampera. Navdeep Singh, 18, from Hull, successfully drove the cutting edge extended-range electric vehicle and passed the test with flying colours. He learned to...

dieselcar.com

 

[Lovemyev]

I think that I posed a question about this a while ago on another site.

If you pass your test on an automatic, as a U.K. citizen you can’t legally drive a manual car however, if you are an overseas resident who has only driven automatics, you can come to this country and using an International Driving Licence, hire a manual here and legally drive away!

I have seen You Tube videos of U.S. drivers struggling to cope with a manual hire car! Allowed for them but not for us!

Agreed !.

Can You Drive a Manual Car if You Pass in an Automatic?​

No, you cannot drive a manual car if you passed the driving test in an automatic. If you passed the driving test in an automatic car, your licence restricts you to driving automatic and semi-automatic cars only. Essentially, that means you can drive any car that does not require the driver to manually operate the clutch.

So, my guess would be, if you pass your test in an automatic, it would be classed as the same, as passing in an EV for the reasons stated above.
If it was my children, I would recommend learning and passing your test, in a car with “Stick” and your covered for all of them !.
Cover all of your options.

 

[Lguk]

I think the biggest issue is going to be when driving instructors make the switch to EV, but young drivers are still likely to be buying a 2nd Hand ICE. I'm sure I read on this forum someone has traded their MG5 for an ICE as they're going to be a driving instructor and the demand right now is for Manual vehicles. I can see them having to change this distinction or provide an additional short test to add the Manual class to your license afterwards.

 

[seye]

If you learn in an EV, would most of the safety features need to be turned off, so the learner uses their knowledge they are being taught and instinct, for example looking over the right shoulder before pulling out, or overtaking, because of the blind side alert, also the lane departure alert?

My son passed his test in an ICE car, but with quite a few smart features. He had to learn to drive in my car as lessons were impossible during lockdown.
You can leave those aids on provided they do not control the car. i.e. Speed limiter is ok, cruise control isnt.

360 cameras to help parking, blind spot assistance etc, no problem
Hill Start assist, no problem
Electric handbrake, no problem
Lane assist may be interesting, it doesnt as the driver is still in control. I only have alarm in mine

Even with all the new toys we should all be applying good practice anyway. They are aids not replacments

I actually disabled some like lane assiantace alarm, speeding alarms, speedo very big in the infortainment system etc. No reason to give assessors help in finding a reasons to fail ;-)

 

[seye]

Good question, my wife and I was discussing this last week, our 2 girls will be learning to drive in 4&5 years time, by then my MG ZS EV ordered 8th November may have arrived, so do we give lessons in mine, or my wife’s ICE car. I suppose learning in a manual, may be a bit of an advantage if the law changes and the government puts 2030 back by a couple of years.

learn in both, Thats what I did for my son. Ok 2 ICE cars but very different experience

You may think insurance will be an issue for 2 cars but its not. I used a scheme where you buy a number of days over a number of months e.g. 20 days over 3 months. You then invoke a day when you need it. This is the learners own insurance not yours, so if they prang the car its them that will have the hit on NCD ( makes them think a bit ). The car you are driving needs to be insursed, then this 'tops it up' for the learner. That was very cost effective

Personally I think learning good road sense first in an easy to control car prior to gears made learning ealier, less to think about a the early stages.

As a co-pilot my nervousness was what to do in an emergency. No handbrake to pull in many modern cars ! There was never a need but before emarking on those many hours it was in my mind

Even if you dont have manual I would suggest passing in that to leave options open for the future. If you dont have one maybe don't buy one but use an instructor for that bit. i.e. lessons and test. Expensive but cheeper than a new car

 

[PhevsamHS]

learn in both, Thats what I did for my son. Ok 2 ICE cars but very different experience

You may think insurance will be an issue for 2 cars but its not. I used a scheme where you buy a number of days over a number of months e.g. 20 days over 3 months. You then invoke a day when you need it. This is the learners own insurance not yours, so if they prang the car its them that will have the hit on NCD ( makes them think a bit ). The car you are driving needs to be insursed, then this 'tops it up' for the learner. That was very cost effective

Personally I think learning good road sense first in an easy to control car prior to gears made learning ealier, less to think about a the early stages.

As a co-pilot my nervousness was what to do in an emergency. No handbrake to pull in many modern cars ! There was never a need but before emarking on those many hours it was in my mind

Even if you dont have manual I would suggest passing in that to leave options open for the future. If you dont have one maybe don't buy one but use an instructor for that bit. i.e. lessons and test. Expensive but cheeper than a new car

I think most electric handbrakes can still be used in an emergency I believe it is a case of pull/push (which ever action initially applies the handbrake under normal conditions) and hold. I may well be wrong about this but I am sure this is the case.

 

[seye]

I think most electric handbrakes can still be used in an emergency I believe it is a case of pull/push (which ever action initially applies the handbrake under normal conditions) and hold. I may well be wrong about this but I am sure this is the case.

some can, most can't. One day on my own I wanted some fun in the snow so experiemented ;-)

They are generally parking brake, not emergency brakes, and they are not always on the center console. My old Renault Espace was drivers door side and you could play with that one ;-) Current car in in the middle but doesnt work whilst moving

I learnt to by hyper vigilent whilst teaching and avoid the need. It was good for me too as it forced me to revise all the advanced driving lessons I did rather a long time ago. We should be anyway but best intentions and all that.....

Co-Piloting Its surpringly tiring. All respect to driving instructors who do it all day. At least they do have dual controls but even so it must be tough

 

[jared]

I can't imagine going back to a manual car ever again but for the next few years (at least) if I want to rent a car either in the UK or abroad the chances are that I'll end up with ICE car. Therefore it's probably worth learning manual purely to make life simpler. But for my kids who will be learning to drive in 5+ years - I would seriously consider wether its worth learning manual, it's a lot more learning for little benefit.

 

[Gomev]

I think most electric handbrakes can still be used in an emergency I believe it is a case of pull/push (which ever action initially applies the handbrake under normal conditions) and hold. I may well be wrong about this but I am sure this is the case.

some can, most can't. One day on my own I wanted some fun in the snow so experiemented ;-)

They are generally parking brake, not emergency brakes, and they are not always on the center console. My old Renault Espace was drivers door side and you could play with that one ;-) Current car in in the middle but doesnt work whilst moving

I know that the EPB can be operated in the ZS as an emergency brake, it was commented on in that forum some while ago. The manual for the MG5 also says it can.

Emergency Braking Function
Inappropriate use of the EPB can lead to
accidents and injuries. Do not apply the EPB
for vehicle braking, unless in emergency.
During emergency braking using the EPB, DO
NOT switch off the vehicle power system, this
could result in serious injury.
In the event of normal brake failure, emergency braking
using the EPB can be initiated by pulling and holding the
EPB switch upward.
• Pulling and holding the EPB switch upward can realize
emergency braking. During emergency braking using
EPB, an audible warning will sound.
• To cancel the emergency braking process, release the
EPB switch.
171

 

[seye]

I know that the EPB can be operated in the ZS as an emergency brake, it was commented on in that forum some while ago. The manual for the MG5 also says it can.

Emergency Braking Function
Inappropriate use of the EPB can lead to
accidents and injuries. Do not apply the EPB
for vehicle braking, unless in emergency.
During emergency braking using the EPB, DO
NOT switch off the vehicle power system, this
could result in serious injury.
In the event of normal brake failure, emergency braking
using the EPB can be initiated by pulling and holding the
EPB switch upward.
• Pulling and holding the EPB switch upward can realize
emergency braking. During emergency braking using
EPB, an audible warning will sound.
• To cancel the emergency braking process, release the
EPB switch.
171

Good to know, bring on the snow. Obviously mean learn how to control a car in adverse conditions before you encounter an emergency situation is important. ;-)

So important its part of the driving test in Sweden Sweden Part 2 test - Risk Training

It assume it will be all or nothing though, unlike a manual handbrake though

 

[bwanamdevu]

This skid training costs about £165! Thank goodness that I didn’t have to do it when I lived in Sweden in the 1980s!

All they required from me was a full and valid U.K. licence and to carry the licence around with you when driving. It was inspected by the Police if stopped. The Swedish police used to stop cars in general far more often than their U.K. counterparts - I was stopped three times one year and asked for papers. Not because of anything that I had done but as routine stops of many cars.

The major difference of driving in snow or icy conditions was that most of us changed our tyres, putting on a set of studded ones which were kept in the garage until wintry conditions started late in the year.

 

[Alb]

Handbrake turns will never be the same

 

[mystreet]

Interesting point.
I've not come across anyone who has taken their test in an EV but there must be some out there!

Wonder how much time they will use up looking for the oil dipstick