Flood water damage resulting in full battery replacement

[FamilyMan]

Hi all,
I am a new member and I have just signed up specifically to make this post.
Before I go onto explain the situation, I want to precede this with the fact that I am not here to publicly shame MG, the car ( 2023 MG ZS EV) or scaremonger. I'm simply looking for answers and possible explanations to how this could have occurred. However, I don't have anything positive to say about the garage involved (Paul Rigby MG Redditch), as their service has been poor and that has made it harder for me to trust their findings. I have seen another recent thread referring to the same garage so I'm obviously not alone in this.
Its a bit long winded, but I will try my best to summarise and keep it concise.

• Its a company lease car that we have had from new since April 2023, done only 5K miles in that time. Mainly used by my wife for getting our baby around town.
• One Monday morning we were unable to put it into drive. The car as asking us to put it on charge (even though it had over 30 miles left) and hab the warning HV Battery disconnect. Unfortunately, it was parked too far away from our charge point. I had the idea of getting a mains charger to put through the living room window, but after waiting a day to get this we then couldnt access the car, complete shut off. AA came out suggested the problem was related to the main battery seeking a charge which had drained the 12V battery. He jump started it, took it round the block to clear the warning messages and then plugged it in. Said it would be good to go in a coupe of hours. Sure enough we were driving it again that afternoon without issue.
• Next morning same original problem - we could get into car, but couldnt put into drive and had the warning message HV Battery Dicsconnect. AA came out again, but this time they said they couldn't diagnose the problem and it would need to be taken to the manufacture.
• A week later it went into the garage and I ended up booking an AA visit in advance knowing that I wouldnt be able to start it. He tried everything to get it started, but then decided it had to be recovered and we both went in his van towing it to the garage. (I have spoken to this AA man since and he was shocked at the outcome).
• After several days the garage finally looked at it and I got told the report had been submitted to MG and they were waiting for their response. A day later the service manager rang me and said that there was water damage, which could only have been caused by us driving it through high level water or leaving it in high level water. As a result MG wouldn't be covering the repairs under warranty and it would likely be several thousand so I was advised to contact my insurance. I was very surprised at this, as I couldn't recall going through any water of note (I innocently thought it was some form of electrical fault and that I would have the car back in a matter of days).
• I have asked to see the report but have so far been denied access to this and all the evidence that has been provided to me has been a few photos of some internal parts looking wet and suggested flood damage to the outside of the car, some of which I don't honestly recognise. I took it up with the lease company and they initially agreed that it seemed inconclusive, but after asking some more questions to the garage they said they had to accept the evidence provided and that I was liable for the recharge. I was advised that I would receive an email with a quote on the likely repair cost and I would need to approve it before it would be actioned. The email arrived and it stated a full battery replacement at the total estimated cost of £22K+VAT. Obviously this came as a massive shock to me, especially as this had now seemingly escalated from a few thousand pounds of repairs to tens of thousands for a full battery replacement.
• Needless to say I didn't approve this and went back to the lease company strongly arguing against this outcome, putting on record to them that I hadn't knowingly or willingly driven through any high level water. I also made the point that this is our family car and my young baby is in it 99% of the time, which means that I have apparently put this life at risk. I also sent a similar disgruntled email to MG customer services.
• The lease company have said that they are going to send in their own independent inspectors and that I will also be allowed to arrange my own independent inspection after this.
• MG customer service responded saying 'the damage could only occur if the vehicle has been driven through flood water, at a reasonable pace on a number of occasions. Alternatively, the vehicle has been sat in flood water.' The second part to that seems so ridiculous that its not even worth entertaining and the first part has just made me even more adamant that there must be some other reasoning for this. To think maybe I have been through some level of water once without being able to recall it - unlikely but possible. To say that I have done it several times - that I just cant comprehend.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this please? I've been racking my brains for possible explanations and the only ones I can come up with are as follows;

1. The car was sat in water during transportation on its way to us, but would it take that long for the damage caused to become apparent?
2. We went through some water (hand on heart cant recall anything of note) several months ago, which has caused some water damage and then corrosion to parts around the battery, which has then further caused water ingress and damage to the battery? Although, I would then argue that this would mean a ticking time bomb for people who, like us, would carry on using the cars not knowing that there was damage being caused to the battery at such astronomical cost.
3. This is probably going to show how little I know about cars, but perhaps there was water retained in the car and when it was put on the back of the AA van, this then caused it to shift and create damage to the rest of the car?

I realise I have waffled a bit now but just t finish; I am not a car person and I don't really mind what I drive, I just want a reliable car that gets me and my family from A to B. I am not particularly for or against electric and the only reason I got one is because it made sense from a tax (financial) perspective. The idea was to sell my Focus, bank the cash to cover my wifes maternity and then also get a family car in the process. Instead of securing us financially I am not looking at the possibility of causing us financial hardship for years to come.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Alb]

Couldn't really comment on this without seeing the evidence they are presenting.

 

[Robf]

Sorry you are in such a difficult situation. I am struggling to understand how the battery could get water inside, even if going through flood? Surely the battery should be a sealed unit? Does that mean when driving in wet weather the battery can get water inside, I doubt it. Definately get an independant verification (RAC or similar), it would seem to me that a seal has failed. Might also be an idea to contact cirizens advice (just call them), they are surprisingly good and will ensure that your corrospondance is suitably worded.
In addition, the problem as you described above would be more indicative of a problem with the 12V battery rather than the HV. Similar issues have happened to site members and the problem solved with replacement of the 12V battery, they seem to be very poor quality.

 

[Kithmo]

Can you be certain the wife (who mainly drives the car) didn't drive it through flood water ?
The only solution I can see is to claim on the company's insurance. They may write it off and give you a new one if you get the claim in before it's 12 months old.
I'm afraid MG have covered themselves with this little paragraph on page 166 of the manual:
Driving through Water
Avoid driving through floods after heavy rain, which may
lead to serious damage to the vehicle.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Hi FamilyMan, and welcome to the forum.

Sorry to hear about your problem. As has been mentioned, the way forward is to get your own inspection. Maybe contact Cleevely Garage in Cheltenham, who are independant EV specialists, and see if they will do an inspection.

Cleevely Motors | Car Maintenance and Servicing Cheltenham

Car Maintenance and Servicing Cheltenham

www.cleevelymotors.co.uk

 

[FamilyMan]

Thank you all for the responses so far. Taking each in turn:

1. The only evidence I have are the photos, which I would be happy to supply you with?
2. I was reliably informed that the battery should be watertight and made that point to the lease company and they in turn said that this question had been raised with the garage, the answer they gave 'the connectors on the HV battery are damaged and because of this a new HV battery is required'.
3. We have had an honest conversation about it and we are both adamant that this hasn't happened. Two points on the insurance claim; Firstly it would mean accepting liability for something that we don't think we are guilty of and secondly I'm pretty sure the insurance company will ask about information relating to an incident, but as far as we are concerned there hasn't been an incident to report. I wouldn't want another MG or electric after this, I have zero confidence in them now. I know I might just be unfortunate, but I think most people would feel the same given whats happened. I take your point on what it says in the manual, but surely all manuals would say something similar? In my 20 years and three cars prior to this one I've never had an issue with water damage so its hard for me to believe that in the past 10 months alone I happened to have gone through sufficient flood water (several times as described) in order to damage this car.
4. Thank you and yes funnily enough I have already been recommended to them and they are on standby to carry out the inspection for me.

 

[Mgzs ev]

really a very unpleasant situation for you.
You would indeed think that the battery is hermetically sealed.
but I often watch Bjorn Nyland on YouTube and there you regularly see videos of batteries with moisture damage.
Tesla has ventilation grilles near the battery where water can also enter, they showed. resulting in the battery having to be replaced.
good luck anyway

 

[Tim Green]

Sorry to hear this FamilyMan, an awkward situation.
It is possible there was some error with the battery packaging which meant that even going through puddles could allow water to enter the battery compartment.
So you should state in writing that the car has not gone through any unusual water, or been left in a flood, but that there must be a problem with the car since manufacture. Therefore you reject the car as not fit for purpose and determine that you refuse to have anything to do with the problem. Your insurance will not cover a car fault, only if you admit liability. (As you say). Stick to your guns, maybe with help from a solicitor, or the AA or RAC legal dept, if you are a member.

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

BALL ACHE!

Often forgotten is the box for legal cover you 'might' have ticked on your car or house insurance?

It's called 'Home Legal Select' in my case.

Either one will advise and defend you if you have it, usually up to £100,000.

I just checked my home insurance and they would help me in event of any sort of dispute or complaint.

I feel for you m8.
I reckon it's going to turn into a massive ball ache and take an age to sort it all out.
I hope I'm wrong.

 

[ched]

'the connectors on the HV battery are damaged and because of this a new HV battery is required'.

If that is the exact wording then they are suggesting that the connections to the HV battery have been damages. From what I have seen on youtube, re MG batteries, the actual connections to the HV battery is external to the battery as they are on most EVs!
If they are saying that the internal connectors are damaged then someone would have to have opened up the battery pack - I'm not sure any MG dealer has the necessary skills to do that.
If you could post the images (attach files) then if there are any internal images of the hv battery pack showing cells and control system we will be able to see MG have opened up the battery.

A specialist like Cleevely Garage will be able to tell if it's an internal hv pack issue or just the input connections that have an issue.

I suspect that the MG dealer are just doing as they are told and they can't open a battery for investigation.

At this point do you know what state the car is in? i.e. is battery removed, opened etc?

Sorry for lots of questions at such a stressful time.

 

[FamilyMan]

Thanks all for your support.
I do have legal cover on the car insurance and have already got the ball rolling on this.
I know that its likely to turn it a long running battle, all the while having to pay for a car that I cannot use. The lease comes to an end in about 2 years so it will have to be resolved one way or another by then.
The independent inspection arranged by the leasing company is due to take place tomorrow and I will get a copy of the report sometime next week. I'm not feeling particularly hopeful on this as when I asked what this would involve they said it will be a visual inspection to evaluate the likely cause of the fault. Its to be carried out by DEKRA.
I also asked the leasing company if they had received a copy of the garages original report, but the images are all that they received as well. I have been advised a couple of times now that I have a legal right to see the report, the garage cited GDPR reasons for not providing it, but this is apparent nonsense.
I will upload the images in a separate posting.

Here are most of the images supplied

 

[DBedford]

The foam rubber trapped between the front doors and the frame always comes free in the ZS, I've had to poke mine back more than once.
Strange that clear, clean water appears to still be present in the photos as if it happened just before the photos were taken !

 

[ched]

Here are most of the images supplied

So the fault is with the low voltage communications system plug. The HV (orange connector) seems to be dry and free of any corrosion. If MG are writing off the complete expensive battery pack just because a connector has failed then they are complete muppets. It appears they have not opened the battery pack so they have no idea if it's faulty!
I very much doubt this will happen but under no circumstances allow then to fit a new battery and not give you the old one.
In my opinion you have a perfectly good battery that has has a connector seal fail and cause corrosion. All that needs to be done is the battery removed, opened up and a new connector fitted the a new one fitted to the car loom. I am sure these could be sourced from a scrap yard and a decent company like Cleevely Garage would be capable of installing then new plugs etc. It's like them saying there is a connection that is faulty on a diesel engine and saying the only way to fit it is with a complete replacement engine!
Triple B Engineering on Youtube swapped an MG ZS (mk1) battery that they bought from a scrap yard for £2.5k so worst case you need the car plug harness that's damaged and the battery pack BMS connector and suitably skilled people to fit it.

As for the dealer using GDPR that is complete rubbish. Under the Data Protection Act 2018 you entitled to see any information (electronic or written) that relates to you. As you own the car all information the dealer has that references this car is subject to the Data Protection Act. Ask the dealer for the details of their Data Controller, have a word with them and ask for all information relating to the vehicle and remind them they have 1 month before you escalate the issue to the Information Commissioner’s Office.

After seeing the images I wonder if MG can explain how only 1 single connector is damaged by 'the flood damage'. The abs sensors, the dc connectors, the battery heater connector, the master service disconnect plug are all fine! Seems to me like the seal on the battery low voltage connector was damaged at installation and the corrosion has taken this long to break a connection. The connectors are all facing forwards which is a stupid design meaning all the water thrown up while driving hits the connectors. As an engineer I can't see how driving through deep water could cause this damage, the only way this connector could corrode is if water has seeped in and stayed there over a period of time. On the basis that these low voltage connectors are used under a vehicle they should be rated at IP66 at minimum meaning they should be protected against water being projected in powerful jets - car wash, jet wash etc.
I think they are using the 'sitting in flood water' as being immersed in water requires a higher IP rating.
Anyway worst case you need a skilled independent garage to repair the connections. Best case your Finance company or if needs be an independent EV expert can assess the damage on your behalf and persuade MG that their muppets at the dealer are not qualified to ascertain what cause the water ingress.

I feel sorry for you having to fight this when it's not your fault. I am sure that everyone here on the Forum would hope for a happy outcome for you.
Please keep us informed and if you want to send me a personal message feel free to, I will do what I can to suggest ways to help.
I'm no expert in EVs but I am a trained electronics engineer with about 20 years on instrumentation and control systems for all sorts of engines from single cylinder diesel engines to the jet engines powering Typhoon aircraft and the Gas turbines powering our aircraft carriers.

 

[Alb]

Thanks for uploading the pictures as they make the situation much clearer.
As mentioned above, there seems to be one connector failure only so certainly not enough to justify changing a battery. This connection is supposed to be IP rated so it looks to me more like a material failure and thus a warranty issue.
There has clearly been water ingress but the other pictures don't persuade me that the car has actually experienced a flood.

 

[Tim Green]

I still think you should reject the car as a whole as not fit for purpose. The detail of what has happened is not really your problem.
As noted above, it looks unlikely that a case could be made that the car has been immersed, so there must have been a manufacturing fault.
But for your own peace of mind and ability to get on with life, a speedy result with a clean break is what you need.

 

[FamilyMan]

Thank you for your responses, especially ched, for going into so much detail. It really is appreciated and I will take you up on your offer of a private message if required.
I was honestly a little apprehensive about uploading the photos, as I really don't know what they show, but I am very encouraged to hear that I might have a fighting chance in this now.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that simple for me to reject the car as not fit for purpose because the lease company owns it. However, if proven correct then I will be requesting it to be returned to them at no additional cost to myself and it will be up to them to deal with MG.
The ideal outcome would be for the lease company's inspection to rule in my favour and then this is used to successfully argue the case with MG. That will then hopefully mean a quicker result and come at no further cost to myself. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the two big company's decide to gang up on the 'poor little guy' and then I will have a real battle on my hands.
I will update you all again next week once I have the results from their report.

 

[Tim Green]

Firstly, I am not a lawyer......!
However, if you google "how to reject a car as not fit for purpose when it is owned by a leasing company " it does give some clear reasons why this is possible. You have already told the lease company that the car has not been flooded or driven through deep water, and I think it reasonable that you now tell the lease company that you want to reject the car on that basis. I suspect they will have a procedure or protocol to deal with it.
Something has gone seriously wrong with this car and it is not of your doing, so you should not be involved with the nitty gritty of sorting it out. I believe it is better to act now to get yourself out of the middle of a messy situation.

 

[Gadget Geek]

This might help.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/how-to-complain/

 

[Starplots]

Sorry you are in such a difficult situation. I am struggling to understand how the battery could get water inside, even if going through flood? Surely the battery should be a sealed unit? Does that mean when driving in wet weather the battery can get water inside, I doubt it. Definately get an independant verification (RAC or similar), it would seem to me that a seal has failed. Might also be an idea to contact cirizens advice (just call them), they are surprisingly good and will ensure that your corrospondance is suitably worded.
In addition, the problem as you described above would be more indicative of a problem with the 12V battery rather than the HV. Similar issues have happened to site members and the problem solved with replacement of the 12V battery, they seem to be very poor quality.

There is always at least 1 breather pipe for the battery as it’s in an otherwise sealed case. This is to allow for the expansion and contraction as it heats up or cools, but the breather should be near the top of the battery - making it even less likely to flood.

I would suggest the OP finds an independent HEvRA specialist to look at it. Home - HEVRA

 

[Andy L]

As this is a water cooled battery is it possible that the coolant itself has leaked into the battery?