Givenergy disappointment: Proposed charge for service

[Bam Bam]

Givenergy customers have received an email today seemingly saying that they will be asked to pay for cloud server access and API usage in the near future.

This is a real disappointment since they previously promised that this would be "free forever."

There have been rumours for a while that Givenergy are in big trouble - they laid off a lot of people a few weeks ago.

Their model was to sell equipment but that led to ongoing customer service support liabilities since their products are difficult to manage without support. Perhaps the arrival of players like Signergy and AlphaESS into the market has hit them hard.

So perhaps the best outcome is that they charge for the service rather than that the service is lost.

What do others think of this?

• What other alternatives might there be?
• Could they go into administration and a phoenix company provide the services? Or would the phoenix company be absolved of all responsibility?
• Could another company like Octopus have taken over this cloud service instead and then had access to the batteries?

 

[Everest]

My 2p worth...

As far as possible I try to avoid getting tied in with proprietary systems as, invariably, the company disappears, changes their modus operandi or makes products obsolete. IIRC Givenergy have a range of non-proprietary (regular 16S, low-voltage) systems as well as newer proprietary (HV) systems. So would assume that there are more options for you if you have a nominal 48V-based system?

As for cloud servers, I wouldn't want to disseminate solar data to a cloud-based service, especially one run by a Chinese company (e.g. like Givenergy's parent company) anyway, so would look at other alternatives. A quick search suggested that there is some integration between Givenergy and HomeAssistant. If so, that is the path I'd investigate.

You say charge for API usage; assume you just mean API calls to the cloud service? If so, then presumably ModBus RTU or similar access to the inverter is still possible locally without any need for Givenergy to be still in existence?

 

[Bam Bam]

My 2p worth...

Your 2p is worth much more!

As far as possible I try to avoid getting tied in with proprietary systems as, invariably, the company disappears, changes their modus operandi or makes products obsolete. IIRC Givenergy have a range of non-proprietary (regular 16S, low-voltage) systems as well as newer proprietary (HV) systems. So would assume that there are more options for you if you have a nominal 48V-based system?

Pretty much. They started out with 48V hybrid inverters and then produced an AC Powerwall rival.

As for cloud servers, I wouldn't want to disseminate solar data to a cloud-based service, especially one run by a Chinese company (e.g. like Givenergy's parent company) anyway, so would look at other alternatives.

Didn't do my due diligence here, obviously, as I didn't know they were a Chinese-owned company.

I knew the equipment was essentially Chinese.

A quick search suggested that there is some integration between Givenergy and HomeAssistant. If so, that is the path I'd investigate.

There are indeed people who control their systems via HomeAssistant.

You say charge for API usage; assume you just mean API calls to the cloud service? If so, then presumably ModBus RTU or similar access to the inverter is still possible locally without any need for Givenergy to be still in existence?

I'm afraid I'm not up on the technical aspects.

They claim that local access is always possible, so I'm not sure if that means we could create an API locally? Sorry if that doesn't make any sense but this is beyond my expertise.

I fear I'm going to have to become an expert in this soon!

 

[Rolfe]

I've been emailing them for over a fortnight about an issue I have, with no response so far. They no longer have a functioning telephone answering service either. What are we supposed to do?

 

[Bam Bam]

I've been emailing them for over a fortnight about an issue I have, with no response so far. They no longer have a functioning telephone answering service either. What are we supposed to do?

When I spoke to them at the Everything Electric Event the most useful guy (Paul) added me to the Facebook group. That seems to be the only place they give any support these days. In the hope that other customers help the person out first.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not on Facebook.

 

[Anon70]

They laid off EVM so getting rid of their ambassadors as well



also changing things on Companies House gives an indication of things afoot

 

[Rolfe]

So if they go out of business, where do those of us who bought their bloody products in good faith stand?

 

[Anon70]

So if they go out of business, where do those of us who bought their bloody products in good faith stand?

Maybe in the same place as the owners of a Fisker Ocean

It would depend on if they are taken over a a going concern of they go out of business and are bought up after that. In most cases a company ceasing to trade would take all contractual arrangements with them and the only redress would be to make a claim with the administrator.

 

[Everest]

So if they go out of business, where do those of us who bought their bloody products in good faith stand?

You may find that you have redress via either your installer or, assuming they were MCS registered, via the MCS's insurers.

Good chance that the inverter will keeping ticking along for another 10+ years though

 

[Everest]

Your 2p is worth much more!

Aww, thanks - I forgot about inflation

They claim that local access is always possible, so I'm not sure if that means we could create an API locally? Sorry if that doesn't make any sense but this is beyond my expertise.

I fear I'm going to have to become an expert in this soon!

Seems like quite a few have integrated Givenergy system with HA and can get quite a bit of detail, like this example...

Some links for your bedtime reading..

Home Assistant Software

Yes, lots of us have. If you’re a beginner to all this, the videos by Speak to the Geek (YouTube channel) are a good place to start.

community-beta.givenergy.cloud

GitHub - cdpuk/givenergy-local: Home Assistant integration for local access to GivEnergy inverter and battery systems

Home Assistant integration for local access to GivEnergy inverter and battery systems - cdpuk/givenergy-local

github.com

 

[Rolfe]

You may find that you have redress via either your installer or, assuming they were MCS registered, via the MCS's insurers.

Good chance that the inverter will keeping ticking along for another 10+ years though

It's the minor issues, though. Some time last year my inverter was acting up, seeming to be actioning settings that had been deleted as if they were still there. I think I phoned and someone fixed it by applying a software update. Now my battery is charging when it shouldn't be charging and discharging when it shouldn't be discharging - at a low rate, but it's annoying and will get more so into the summer. I think it just needs another software update, but I can't get anyone to respond to me.

 

[Everest]

Are you dealing with Givenergy directly though? Assume those issues would be directed at your installers.

 

[Rolfe]

I have today emailed my installer and we'll see what he says. In the past, though, Givenergy has sorted it out. It's almost certainly a software issue, and I don't see why the installer even needs to be bothered about it.