Heating

[DavidB]

Hi All,

I am looking at buying a ZS or an HS. They really are remarkable value for money. Being retired, our mileage is a mix of local trips to the supermarket, etc, and much longer trips away, family visits, and so on. The current ZS just doesn't have the range for the latter, and I had almost decided to go for the HS when I discovered you have to run the engine to heat the car........

So, on the 300+ days here in Ireland you have to run the heater/demister, the engine has to run for at least the first few km of the 12km shopping trip, thereby partly negating the point of the ev ability. And, since wer'e both 70, and can remember when many cars had no heater, we really don't wan't to go back to fogged-up windows, and woolly hats and scarves and gloves - heated seats notwithstanding.

Any comments any of you would care to make on your own experiences in this area - for example, how long it takes to warm up, what effect it has on fuel consumption - would be greatly appreciated. I really like the car, but this could be a deal-breaker.

Regards,

David

 

[Flatcoat]

It is an odd feature but probably helps keep the price down. Reminds me of in the 1960’s when BMC sent a shipment of Morris Oxford’s to Kenya. They didn’t fit heaters as Africa is so hot…. Forgetting Kenya has mountains and snow….. the importers had to retrofit heaters….

 

[Henri8]

Hi David, have a look at ‘Heating in EV mode’ dated May 15th and several other threads concerning this issue.
My experience, having driven during wintertime in EV 90% of he time, is not to bad. The first 5km I start in Hybrid mode with seat heating on then I select EV and mostly also use the HVA cut off switch in order to stay in EV. Back to Hybrid if needed.
Not perfect I agree...

 

[DavidB]

Thanks for your comments, guys. I had missed your heating thread, Henri8 - very helpful. What a pity no-one thought at the design stage about a water pre-heater linked to the charging circuit.

I had a chance to test-drive the ZS and HS back-to-back yesterday, and the HS does feel like the more-complete package. I liked it a lot and, in comparison, the ZS feels like a city runabout. The price differential is more than evident in what you get.

Still, I think I'll sit on my hands for a bit to see if the rumoured long-range, up-specced ZS materialises this autumn. I'll say this for MG: I haven't been so excited about changing my car for a long time. Watch this space!

 

[Deleted member 3150]

Unless you are running a hybrid as a company car where the total cost of ownership is based in BIC tax and fuel allowances it will never beat a diesel. As a private buyer in temperate climate it’s a personal choice where by you work out if you will do enough short journeys in EV, or slightly longer journies in hybrid mode. The longer the journey and more of them taken, will bring the mpg right down to 40mpg. The extra cost of purchase price then makes in a very expensive purchase against a similar spec diesel.
The heater in EV mode issue is only when inside car temp is lower than outside , so you have to look at you personal circumstances. Do you have a garage, how many really cold journey days do you have, are you retired and don’t have the early morning ice scrapes?
So bottom line is if you need to watch your pennies, buy a diesel, if you don’t trust the EV infrastructure and hate long waiting charging, but want to start your electric journey - buy a hybrid. If you want to watch your pennies and drive an EV, MG are extremely good value for money and the niggles are worth living with.

I've had both the ZS EV and HS phev and prefer the comfort and convenience of the HS. I’ll change to EV again when the infrastructure and cars meet my criteria.

 

[DavidB]

My initial post, Electrickery, was to see how people get around the heater issue. I have already taken on board the other issues you describe, and I think a phev might work for us. I'd love to go bev but I don't think range is yet good enough and the charging network developed or reliable enough - and, of the 2 MGs, the HS is undoubtedly the better car.

 

[Flatcoat]

This has become the final reason for us to reluctantly take the HS Hybrid off our shortlist. I like the car, build quality, good seats, very roomy and very quick. However…. The infotainment glitches, need to reset EV modes, seemingly poor dealer/MG UK support on occasions but finally the heating issue. We do use our car in cold weather including going on winter holidays to Scottish highlands and sometimes into Europe. I don’t just want my seat warm, I want a warm car throughout for my passengers and myself. I really hope when we next change in 3-4 years time the HS successor is better sorted and I can revisit the brand.

 

[DavidB]

Hi Flatcoat,

Thanks for your observations. My initial reaction to the heating issue was like yours but, having driven the car again, I've changed my mind. Every car has odd quirks (Have you, for example, heard the din made by the Kuga's engine and elastic-band transmission?) and I've decided that the rest of the car is so engaging, the spec so comprehensive, and the price so sharp in comparison with its competitors, that I think I can live with running the engine for a few minutes at a time on short journeys. The heating isn't an issue on longer journeys, when the car has to run in hybrid mode.

Competitors I've considered include the Ford Kuga, Opel/Vauxhall Grandland, Citroen C5, Toyota RAV4 (different kind of hybrid, I know) and, for comparison, diesel Skoda Karoq. Each one has its flaws and they all cost many thousands more than the MG when similarly-specced, without any evidence if higher quality. I'd be really interested to know what else is on your short-list.

And, yes, I know I sound as if I've sold myself the HS.

 

[Flatcoat]

In part I am comparing with my current Volvo diesel plug-in hybrid that doesn’t have that issue. I can go to town and back entirely in EV mode in hot or cold weather and run the climate or heating as required. I really wanted to get the MG but in the end too many admittedly small flaws (including the slow infotainment, sat nav lacking speed camera data, DAB problems) but the cumulative effect becomes too much for me to compromise. So looking at new Tiguan plug-in Hybrid, Tucson self charging hybrid. I tow a caravan so options limited.

 

[DavidB]

Thanks for the Tiguan suggestion. I like the standard car but had missed the hybrid version, so I shot over to the VW website and "built" one to match HS spec. The rrp for the HS Exclusive, here in Ireland, is €40,450, and the Tiguan topped out at €52,816 - including €3200 for heated, electric, leather seats, and €975 (eh?!) for red paint. Oy!!! I didn't bother to investigate the heating..........

 

[Flatcoat]

I know…. As I said a very close call and difficult decision. If the slow witted infotainment and other related glitches widely reported on here were fixed or MG were known to be rolling out a fix I might reconsider. However that doesn’t appear to be the case…..

 

[Deleted member 3150]

I’m sure the petrol used for cold journeys so you can have the heater on will be thousands of pounds / Euros less that the cost difference for purchase price of a competitor’s phev. You don’t notice the sluggish infotainment system once you settle into a routine and stop playing with the controls. Not relevant to @Flatcoat though as his caravan is over weight for the HS.

 

[DavidB]

The HS is so sharply-priced that the quirks tend to become insignificant. I didn't find the infotainment system "laggy" but then I'm not exactly a tecchie; nor did I notice the infamous ev-mode gearchange "hole." But the heating business bugged me. I think I'm over it.

Having caravanned for over 30 years, I don't think I'd consider a 1.5 petrol engine for towing. I always stuck fairly close to the CC's guideline of caravan at 80% of towcar weight and 50bhp/tonne combined.

 

[JABO]

i'm looking into installing either a webasto engine heater or just a cabin heater, though i must admit that it heats up quite fast by itself, and can then be driven in EV until the ICE is so cold it has no more heat to give. so maybe the issue is not so big

 

[Deleted member 3150]

For me, I would not expect the purchase in a heating gadget would give a return on investment over the cast of just turning the engine on petrol. I guess comfort might be a factor if it heats quicker. But I’ve always gone in for of coffe and left the engine running and watched others scraping there windows while I let the car defrost itself. In fact I can’t think of anything I would modify on the HS being worth the money. I had to reprimand myself for moaning about it’s fuel efficiency while at the same time thinking about spending money adding sun blinds or tints. #TCO not mpg or mpKw

 

[DavidB]

Yep. Given that the HS is a match for its competitors in terms of quality, comfort, performance, &c, the ticket price is a winner. You can travel an awfully long way on an additional €15k of fuel.

 

[Flatcoat]

Depends on what or how you are comparing it. On paper it appears to offer a lot and there is no doubt it is an enticing offer However one mans quirk is another’s unacceptable deficiency. I have ordered the new PHEV Tiguan which given MG dealers are not offering discounts is costing me £2000 more. The Tiguan loses the leather electric seats but gains adaptive suspension, heating that works in all modes, responsive infotainment system, wheels that do not look too small and forecast to be worth £6000 more in 4 years. I really hope my next car can be an MG when they have probably replaced the current HS and sorted out the ‘quirks’. In the meantime enjoy your cars!

 

[Lovemyev]

Depends on what or how you are comparing it. On paper it appears to offer a lot and there is no doubt it is an enticing offer However one mans quirk is another’s unacceptable deficiency. I have ordered the new PHEV Tiguan which given MG dealers are not offering discounts is costing me £2000 more. The Tiguan loses the leather electric seats but gains adaptive suspension, heating that works in all modes, responsive infotainment system, wheels that do not look too small and forecast to be worth £6000 more in 4 years. I really hope my next car can be an MG when they have probably replaced the current HS and sorted out the ‘quirks’. In the meantime enjoy your cars!

If the PHEV Tiguan is a good as the other VW models, then you will be very pleased I think.
I have a ZS EV now, after coming from fairly long list of VW’s.
My previous car was a Golf GTE PHEV.
It will have a similar hybrid system as the Tiguan I think.
My son has a now three year old Tiguan and it is a fantastic family car.
When going on holiday with his two young children, it will have the boot and top box FULL of stuff and four bikes strapped to the back.
The room and ride is great and it feels like a really solid car.
I have always said :-
“Pity they don’t make one of these in a PHEV”.
Well now they do !.
The hybrid system works brilliantly and yes you could run on pure EV without the ICE unit kicking in if you wanted.
Your range will be short in the winter, but of course you know this.
I used the pure EV mode as much as possible, that is how I got bitten by the EV drive train bug !.
You may have to give up a few items over the equipment on the HS - but “Bit’s” don’t make up for a drive train that suits your needs.
You will not miss the extras, but it will annoy you each time that ICE starts up even popping around to the local shop.

 

[Flatcoat]

I currently drive a PHEV so used to how they work and cold weather implications. I have owned more VW Group products than any other brands however I also had an MG ZT- T (probably the best car ever) and Rover 75. The VW PHEV drivetrain seems well proven and robust so looking forward to it albeit there will always be a slight niggle about the MG….

 

[MowerMan65]

Hi All,

I am looking at buying a ZS or an HS. They really are remarkable value for money. Being retired, our mileage is a mix of local trips to the supermarket, etc, and much longer trips away, family visits, and so on. The current ZS just doesn't have the range for the latter, and I had almost decided to go for the HS when I discovered you have to run the engine to heat the car........

So, on the 300+ days here in Ireland you have to run the heater/demister, the engine has to run for at least the first few km of the 12km shopping trip, thereby partly negating the point of the ev ability. And, since wer'e both 70, and can remember when many cars had no heater, we really don't wan't to go back to fogged-up windows, and woolly hats and scarves and gloves - heated seats notwithstanding.

Any comments any of you would care to make on your own experiences in this area - for example, how long it takes to warm up, what effect it has on fuel consumption - would be greatly appreciated. I really like the car, but this could be a deal-breaker.

Regards,

David

Hi - I also had misgivings about the heating issue - but it's turned out to be a non-issue in the end
If the engine starts because there is a call for heat in the car, and you drive off, you will see (in the power flow graphic on the screen) that although the engine is running, it's not actually driving the car. If you keep the speed under 25 mph (as most short journeys are) it will NEVER drive the car - the economy figures will be in the hundreds per gallon range. If you exceed 25mph, the engine and car will heat up quickly anyway and you can then switch to ev mode anyway. Even if you don't, just using the IC engine for heat costs next to nothing - although it was a strange design choice. An electric heater is just about the simplest piece of technology there is and costs next to nothing. I can't imagine why they didn't include one.