Help Please Charging

[BobN]

Apologies if this has been answered many times but a newbie on here I have a MG EV ZS and due to accommodation I am NOT able to charge overnight. I have been using BP Pulse etc.. on 43KW fast charges and it only goes up to 147 miles showing. I was looking to see how to extend this to the 163miles as shown and with a type2 cable went on a 3kw charger expecting it to charge more, I was inside the car like I do on fast charge, but after 55 mins nothing extra went on at all, what did I do wrong please? can you not sit in the car say charging on 3KW ? Thanks

 

[Jomarkh]

A 3kw 'granny' charger will take 20 hours to fully charge a car.
It may add about 5 miles or just a few % in an hour.
Depending on your BMS update may not let you charge unlocked.

 

[mystreet]

Apologies if this has been answered many times but a newbie on here I have a MG EV ZS and due to accommodation I am NOT able to charge overnight. I have been using BP Pulse etc.. on 43KW fast charges and it only goes up to 147 miles showing. I was looking to see how to extend this to the 163miles as shown and with a type2 cable went on a 3kw charger expecting it to charge more, I was inside the car like I do on fast charge, but after 55 mins nothing extra went on at all, what did I do wrong please? can you not sit in the car say charging on 3KW ? Thanks

If you are in normal mode with the air con/heater on that looks about right.

Turn off the heating put it in economy mode, see what you get

 

[BobN]

If you are in normal mode with the air con/heater on that looks about right.

Turn off the heating put it in economy mode, see what you get

OK Thanks will give it a go!

 

[BobN]

A 3kw 'granny' charger will take 20 hours to fully charge a car.
It may add about 5 miles or just a few % in an hour.
Depending on your BMS update may not let you charge unlocked.

Cheers

 

[Stuart74]

I think it looks at previous accumulated distance travelled and avarage kw per mile used.
If you go to screen on dash that shows digital speed, press down arrow twice on steering wheel and hold OK button for long time this will reset it.
Then look at range in eco mode.
My range has been showing around 170 -175 due to warm weather.
If I was you I would try and use 7kw chargers and let battery balance.
from loads of posts on here if you keep using fast chargers this will cause issues with the range due to battery imbalance.

 

[Kayged]

Apologies if this has been answered many times but a newbie on here I have a MG EV ZS and due to accommodation I am NOT able to charge overnight. I have been using BP Pulse etc.. on 43KW fast charges and it only goes up to 147 miles showing. I was looking to see how to extend this to the 163miles as shown and with a type2 cable went on a 3kw charger expecting it to charge more, I was inside the car like I do on fast charge, but after 55 mins nothing extra went on at all, what did I do wrong please? can you not sit in the car say charging on 3KW ? Thanks

You need to charge the car fully on either the granny charger or the 7kw one every so often so that the batteries can re-balance. Have you tried using the 7kw chargers at the Tesco Extras? They are free to use while shopping. You have to abide by the maximum parking time which can be either 2 or 3 hours depending on location so may take 2 -4 trips to totally fill up and balance the batteries. We plug ours in even if only shopping for 30 minutes and generally keeps the battery ready for longer runs when we use the 50kw CCS chargers.

 

[Lovemyev]

We plug ours in even if only shopping for 30 minutes and generally keeps the battery ready for longer runs when we use the 50kw CCS chargers.

30 minutes on a 7kw charger is likely to give you about 10 ish miles of extra range, if you are sharing the post, it will be half of that.
Balancing does not commence until you hit around 97 - 98% SOC on the pack.
Below this figure and you are collecting a charge only.
Not likely to get much balancing done then on a restricted time car park ?.
Unless you arrive at a high SOC in which case, it hardly seems like bothering to be honest.
MG recommend carrying out a "Balance" of the pack at least once a month.
Extensive Rapid charging is not good for the general heath of any EV pack.

 

[Kayged]

30 minutes on a 7kw charger is likely to give you about 10 ish miles of extra range, if you are sharing the post, it will be half of that.
Balancing does not commence until you hit around 97 - 98% SOC on the pack.
Below this figure and you are collecting a charge only.
Not likely to get much balancing done then on a restricted time car park ?.
Unless you arrive at a high SOC in which case, it hardly seems like bothering to be honest.
MG recommend carrying out a "Balance" of the pack at least once a month.
Extensive Rapid charging is not good for the general heath of any EV pack.

I think you missed my point, by keeping it topped up our batteries get balanced when we plug in at Tesco for 3 hours while shopping in town and because it is almost fully charged it has plenty of time to balance. As for not getting much when sharing a post, we consistently get around 6.5kw at our Tesco even when 2 cars are connected.

 

[Lovemyev]

I think you missed my point, by keeping it topped up our batteries get balanced when we plug in at Tesco for 3 hours while shopping in town and because it is almost fully charged it has plenty of time to balance. As for not getting much when sharing a post, we consistently get around 6.5kw at our Tesco even when 2 cars are connected.

I do “Get Your Point”.
But I did say, IF you arrive with a high SOC then of course you will be balancing quickly after connecting to the post.
But plugging into a public post from a high SOC and then leaving the car still connected and balancing for 3 hours and affectively blocking that post, is a bit wasteful don’t you think ?.
The balancing process is only pulling about 500 Watts to start with, then reducing down to 350 Watts, then finally down 175 Watts before finishing.
Not to expensive to carry out from home really ?.
Easy to pull close to 7.0 kw’s from one of the other four outlets, if somebody is only pulling a few hundred Watts from another socket while balancing their packs .

 

[Gomev]

...........
Extensive Rapid charging is not good for the general heath of any EV pack.

According to MG as quoted below rapid charging is not bad for the battery. I have also seen this mentioned elsewhere on this forum with quotes from elsewhere.

Taken from Rapid Charging Guide

'WILL RAPID CHARGING DAMAGE MY BATTERY?​

No, rapid charging won’t damage your battery. Electric cars use lithium-ion batteries and will deplete over time, but they won’t be damaged when continuously charged at high power. In today’s world, vehicles are extremely intelligent and if your car thinks it can’t handle the high volume of power, it will automatically limit the amount to the vehicle’s maximum capacity, thus protecting your battery.'

 

[LeoRBK]

According to MG as quoted below rapid charging is not bad for the battery. I have also seen this mentioned elsewhere on this forum with quotes from elsewhere.

Taken from Rapid Charging Guide

'WILL RAPID CHARGING DAMAGE MY BATTERY?​

No, rapid charging won’t damage your battery. Electric cars use lithium-ion batteries and will deplete over time, but they won’t be damaged when continuously charged at high power. In today’s world, vehicles are extremely intelligent and if your car thinks it can’t handle the high volume of power, it will automatically limit the amount to the vehicle’s maximum capacity, thus protecting your battery.'

It is correct. Rapid charging does not damage the battery. It depletes battery lifetime faster than slow charging. Now since batteries have very long lifetimes we should not be too worried.
Equalisation charging/balancing is important though.

 

[Lovemyev]

It depletes battery lifetime faster than slow charging.

Then if the life span / longevity of the battery is reduced as you state, then surely constant rapid charging must be affecting the long term health of the battery ?.
Tesla records the number of super charger cycles the car is conducting and will limit the very high speed in higher mileage / older cars to offer some protection to the pack and in turn, protecting themselves from future warranty claims on HV packs.
Heat generated while charging is part of the problem of course.
Not really a problem with the MG as it’s charging rate is small in comparison to a Tesla !.
Slower charging is kinder to your HV pack LONG term, is what I am saying.
I don’t think anybody would disagree with that really.

 

[Gomev]

Then if the life span / longevity of the battery is reduced as you state, then surely constant rapid charging must be affecting the long term health of the battery ?.
Tesla records the number of super charger cycles the car is conducting and will limit the very high speed in higher mileage / older cars to offer some protection to the pack and in turn, protecting themselves from future warranty claims on HV packs.
Heat generated while charging is part of the problem of course.
Not really a problem with the MG as it’s charging rate is small in comparison to a Tesla !.
Slower charging is kinder to your HV pack LONG term, is what I am saying.
I don’t think anybody would disagree with that really.

Excluding the early Leafs with little battery management, do we really have any LONG term knowledge ?

 

[Cocijo]

I’ve experienced significant battery degradation with Tesla. Supercharging almost all of the time. Tesla have to eventually limit the level to stop even more degradation. A life of supercharging has a significantly greater impact than using home and fast charging. I personally wouldn’t buy an older Tesla with a history of constant supercharging. For most people though who most of the time fast charge, rapid charging being the occasional longer trip it will not be an issue.

 

[Lovemyev]

I’ve experienced significant battery degradation with Tesla. Supercharging almost all of the time. Tesla have to eventually limit the level to stop even more degradation. A life of supercharging has a significantly greater impact than using home and fast charging. I personally wouldn’t buy an older Tesla with a history of constant supercharging. For most people though who most of the time fast charge, rapid charging being the occasional longer trip it will not be an issue.

My views on this subject are the very same.
Battery degradation is going to happen one way or another, that is pure fact and can not be avoided.
But extensive rapid charging will degrade the battery faster and therefore shorten its life span.
It will not happen overnight, but it will creep up on the cells slowly in the back ground.
Tesla Bjorn has covered this behaviour extensively in some of his videos.
Given the mileage and testing he has conducted over the many years of EV’s - I would find it extremely difficult to argue with the evidence he has discovered.
For many EV drivers, we will NEVER come close to testing to the level he has done.
But to cover over 100,000 miles PLUS in various EV’s - He has to be charging from a rapid unit more than most people.
I think it is safe to say, he knows what he is talking about.
It was him who was one of the first people to spot the charging speed reduction in his Tesla.
He is constantly monitoring almost every trip and quickly picks up on any behaviour changes on the cars he is using.
Currently he has access to his old model S again and is checking over defects the car has after covering over 150,000 miles now.
If it’s worth knowing, he know’s it !.

 

[Kayged]

I do “Get Your Point”.
But I did say, IF you arrive with a high SOC then of course you will be balancing quickly after connecting to the post.
But plugging into a public post from a high SOC and then leaving the car still connected and balancing for 3 hours and affectively blocking that post, is a bit wasteful don’t you think ?.
The balancing process is only pulling about 500 Watts to start with, then reducing down to 350 Watts, then finally down 175 Watts before finishing.
Not to expensive to carry out from home really ?.
Easy to pull close to 7.0 kw’s from one of the other four outlets, if somebody is only pulling a few hundred Watts from another socket while balancing their packs .

I don't block the charge point to do a 3 hour balance it has never taken more than 20 minutes to balance the batteries. When I connect to the charger it tells me how long the charge will take. If it is less than my intended shopping time then there is a good chance that the batteries will be balanced when I finish shopping. If it is still balancing then I will get a coffee knowing that the balance will have completed by the time I return with my coffee. No it is not too expensive to balance at home but the charge point is in a covered car park and at home I would have to run an extension lead to the car which people could trip over and it could also be raining and water and electricity don't mix very well.
.

 

[Lovemyev]

I don't block the charge point to do a 3 hour balance it has never taken more than 20 minutes to balance the batteries. When I connect to the charger it tells me how long the charge will take. If it is less than my intended shopping time then there is a good chance that the batteries will be balanced when I finish shopping. If it is still balancing then I will get a coffee knowing that the balance will have completed by the time I return with my coffee. No it is not too expensive to balance at home but the charge point is in a covered car park and at home I would have to run an extension lead to the car which people could trip over and it could also be raining and water and electricity don't mix very well.
.

I am sorry, if maybe I misinterpreted your comment in your post #9 ?.
When it does states 3 hours ?????.

by keeping it topped up our batteries get balanced when we plug in at Tesco for 3 hours while shopping in town and because it is almost fully charged it has plenty of time to balance.

If you are able to balance the pack in 20 mins, then I suspect you are running on the OEM factory software and not received the latest BMS update yet ?.
It is great that you are able to balance the pack in 20 minutes, that must be a record.
If so, his would imply that your pack is in a brilliant state of health !.
I agree about your genuine health and safety concerns with regards to using an extension & charger at home due to the trip hazard on the foot path.
Tesco's has almost become your home charger now in fact !.

 

[jamesie]

I am sorry, if maybe I misinterpreted your comment in your post #9 ?.
When it does states 3 hours ?????.

If you are able to balance the pack in 20 mins, then I suspect you are running on the OEM factory software and not received the latest BMS update yet ?.
It is great that you are able to balance the pack in 20 minutes, that must be a record.
If so, his would imply that your pack is in a brilliant state of health !.
I agree about your genuine health and safety concerns with regards to using an extension & charger at home due to the trip hazard on the foot path.
Tesco's has almost become your home charger now in fact !.

I have mentioned this in a couple of threads before....

I have the OEM BMS and my balance time is between 15 and 20 minutes, The voltage when balancing is between 2 and 2.5 kw (it never dips down to 500w or less). The newest BMS must be programmed differently.

 

[LeoRBK]

Then if the life span / longevity of the battery is reduced as you state, then surely constant rapid charging must be affecting the long term health of the battery ?.
Tesla records the number of super charger cycles the car is conducting and will limit the very high speed in higher mileage / older cars to offer some protection to the pack and in turn, protecting themselves from future warranty claims on HV packs.
Heat generated while charging is part of the problem of course.
Not really a problem with the MG as it’s charging rate is small in comparison to a Tesla !.
Slower charging is kinder to your HV pack LONG term, is what I am saying.
I don’t think anybody would disagree with that really.

That is true. Rapid charging depletes the lifetime faster than slow/fast charging. Li ion cell degradation is natural and part of aging process.
MG user manual advises us to use rapid charger only in emergencies or long journeys and suppliment it with a slow charging for balancing.

For those who need to make long commutes every day, say 100+ mile each way this could mean a rapid charge top up. I think they just need to accept the fact that battery life will reduce faster than some other users.

Will it be a significant degrade? I guess that depends on if you perform a 20-80% daily on a rapid versus a 10/20% top up.

As state of health cannot be directly measured all BMS(Tesla/Nissan/MG) record no of rapid charge cycles to estimate the SoH. I read somewhere that battery impedance can only be measured in labs so BMS uses log book function to estimate State of Health which needs charge/discharge cycles data.