Home charger and main fuse

I had a lot of hell doing mine, old fuse head designed for a 60, had an 80 in. Can't up it to 100 without changing the head. I'm fed by overhead 'low' voltage lines. So the following has to be checked

1) From the LV line on the pole to the cable to the house, tails had to be 25mm or larger
2) Main cable coming into the house had to be substantial enough for 100a + distance
3) Fuse Head to Meter - has to be 25mm tails for 100a fuse
4) Meter to Consumer unit - has to be 25mm tails for 100a fuse
5) Preferably an isolator fitted between the meter and the consumer unit

Items 1&2 are checked by the DNO (in my case UKPN)
Item 3 can only be upgraded by your electricity supplier (in my case Octopus)
Item's 3 & 4 can be carried out by your friendly neighbourhood sparky

In my case the power pole looked more like a tree than a pole due to beyond significant levels of ivy, preventing them from checking, it's taken 3 months for it to die back since the line clearing team stripped the lower half of the pole, they're coming on the 18th May to switch the fuse, I started this in January.

I also had the displeasure of finding out some idiot had rounded off the screw in the fuse holder preventing Octopus from changing the tails that required UKPN to come out and live change the fuse holder to a new one, something they would need to do when they did the 100 anyway and IMO something they should have just done the first visit would have taken them 10 minutes and saved both them an Octopus a 2nd visit.

Earthing is the next battle, thankfully my house was built by a factory and it was deemed PME was the best route rather than earth rods. Does mean my install cost included £120 for a MAT-E box, that annoyingly hums and has a flashy light - not ideal on my landing.

The EO charger can throttle based on a CT Clamp, my guy didn't install one as I was getting a 100a fuse, he also didn't connect it up properly so it is currently working as a dumb charger and Octopus are having trouble getting Charged EV out to resolve it. I have it on good authority that Octopus will no longer be using Charged EV as they're a bunch of clowns. I found out who the installer was too close to the March deadline to actually do anything about it.
 
Lguk said:
I had a lot of hell doing mine, old fuse head designed for a 60, had an 80 in. Can't up it to 100 without changing the head. I'm fed by overhead 'low' voltage lines. So the following has to be checked

1) From the LV line on the pole to the cable to the house, tails had to be 25mm or larger
2) Main cable coming into the house had to be substantial enough for 100a + distance
3) Fuse Head to Meter - has to be 25mm tails for 100a fuse
4) Meter to Consumer unit - has to be 25mm tails for 100a fuse
5) Preferably an isolator fitted between the meter and the consumer unit

Items 1&2 are checked by the DNO (in my case UKPN)
Item 3 can only be upgraded by your electricity supplier (in my case Octopus)
Item's 3 & 4 can be carried out by your friendly neighbourhood sparky

In my case the power pole looked more like a tree than a pole due to beyond significant levels of ivy, preventing them from checking, it's taken 3 months for it to die back since the line clearing team stripped the lower half of the pole, they're coming on the 18th May to switch the fuse, I started this in January.

I also had the displeasure of finding out some idiot had rounded off the screw in the fuse holder preventing Octopus from changing the tails that required UKPN to come out and live change the fuse holder to a new one, something they would need to do when they did the 100 anyway and IMO something they should have just done the first visit would have taken them 10 minutes and saved both them an Octopus a 2nd visit.

Earthing is the next battle, thankfully my house was built by a factory and it was deemed PME was the best route rather than earth rods. Does mean my install cost included £120 for a MAT-E box, that annoyingly hums and has a flashy light - not ideal on my landing.

The EO charger can throttle based on a CT Clamp, my guy didn't install one as I was getting a 100a fuse, he also didn't connect it up properly so it is currently working as a dumb charger and Octopus are having trouble getting Charged EV out to resolve it. I have it on good authority that Octopus will no longer be using Charged EV as they're a bunch of clowns. I found out who the installer was too close to the March deadline to actually do anything about it.
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You have had an absolute nightmare !.
My DNO SSC are playing “Hard To Get”.
Called them to enquire about the upgrade, got through to lady who was as much use as a chocolate fire guard !.
Completely not interested, told me that my EV installer should have contacted them with the wall box was installed.
I explained that this wall box was installed in 2015 and a full survey was done prior, by the company who was carrying out the install.
At that time my 60 Amp fuse was fine and had been since 2015.
I explained that our demand on the incoming supply line was going to be the same, but I just wanted to “Shift” the usage pattern to take advance of my “Off Peak” tariff.
She just kept saying “ You need to contact your EV installer and he needs to send in a request”.
She was hard work, it was like pulling teeth !.
After a lot of time on line on SSC site, I managed to find a link to direct my to an on-line request form.
I completed the form and received a answer back in about 5 hours.
It simply said they had seen my request and somebody would contact me ref this in3 working days.
No contact ( of course ).
E.mailed back and then received another message ( another person ) to say we will be in touch in the next few days !.
Let’s see what happens.
I just wonder how long it would take to get somebody out to replace your main protection fuse, if it failed ????.
It should not be this hard to get your main fuse upgraded surely !.
Granted, a 60 to 80 Amp upgrade is a five minute job but a 100 Amp takes a little longer, because they are working on a “Live” incoming supply.
My neighbour two doors down, had his main service head replaced from 60 to 100 Amps about 3 months ago.
I was working in my front garden when they arrived.
From pulling up outside his house, to leaving with the work completed was 25 minutes !.
Then also installed an isolation switch and upgraded his meter tails in that time.
It’s getting them out is the hard part, it would appear !.
 
Lguk this is the thing that bothers me, just how fiddly it can all be. Hope they all talk to each other and get you sorted soon. We all have to become experts on power provision to our houses and organise everyone else. I thought I was simplifying things by having it done alongside the consumer unit and the other electrical work we were having done, the CU is in the garage after all so it shouldn't be that hard, right? :D
Simon
 
Lovemyev This seems a common issue, and not just with the electric. We deal with telecoms quite a bit, and if you can actually get an engineer out, they'll say things like "That needs changing but I'll do that for you" "I've got one of those on the van so I'll change that while I'm here" "The fault is actually on the customer side but we'll stick it down as unknown and fix it for you anyway". Tends to be the engineers that have been with companies the longest though, so I reckon the days of just getting things done without us having to fight our way past Tarquin or Tamara on customer services are numbered!
 
LordSiborg said:
Lovemyev This seems a common issue, and not just with the electric. We deal with telecoms quite a bit, and if you can actually get an engineer out, they'll say things like "That needs changing but I'll do that for you" "I've got one of those on the van so I'll change that while I'm here" "The fault is actually on the customer side but we'll stick it down as unknown and fix it for you anyway". Tends to be the engineers that have been with companies the longest though, so I reckon the days of just getting things done without us having to fight our way past Tarquin or Tamara on customer services are numbered!
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I have to say that I have just received brilliant service from BT - Yes, BT !.
On Friday two work men where laying a new underground plastic conduit in the foot path, two door down.
When we returned home from shopping on Friday, straight away I noticed that out BT modem status light had changed from blue to orange.
I checked the led light on the fibre box and there was no signal.
I went out to the guys who where just packing up for the day and said :- “Have you been working in that inspection chamber”.
No - why !.
Because my internet is down l.
They then said that they had been in the chamber ( which I knew they had ).
I rang BT and they ran a test on the line, it was down ( of course it was ).
The advisor booked his first available engineer, which was the following day ( Saturday ) which I never expected.
We had an appointment between 9.00am and 1.00pm.
At 8.10 am the engineer was knocking on the door !.
Quick check at the inspection chamber and yes the fibre cable had been damaged !.
This involved running a new fibre cable underground from the chamber to outside of our house, then having to dig an access route across our front garden and lawn.
Myself the engineer and my son had the job completed in less than 2 hours !.
Credit where it’s due, from reporting to fault, to having the system up and running again in less than 24 hours is pretty good going in my book !.
A good lesson on good customer service could be learnt here local DNO !.
 
Spent many a year wrangling with BT and Openreach over private, business and leased lines along with fibre point to point. Very variable results highly dependent on the quality of the call handler. I was called in as a specialist by my manager after 4 days of others failing to get a leased line working. After checking our equipment I spoke to another BT operator who insisted according to the log all had been done. I told him to go away and check everything again. 45 minutes later the In Service light came on! Did they explain or apologise.........

On the original subject I found a fair bit of info on the requirements from the UK Power Networks site. They didn't query the size of the incomer (probably installed about 1970), my complaint was that the fuse carrier was unmarked. The two that came had no quibbles, new cutout box and 100A fuse fitted along with an earth terminal (I had to arrange the transfer off of the rods) It would appear I had hit the "sweet spot" in terms of getting something done as under "Regulation 28 (c). of the The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations" the DNO is required to be able to tell the householder what the fuse rating is or sort it out if unknown. The team did try to read the fuse out of curiosity but as the nuts that held the cartridge in were seized their interest was limited.

I think this is probably applicable to all DNOs so may be of interest

https://innovation.ukpowernetworks....ads/2021/03/Fuse-Upgrade-Guide-March-2021.pdf

It was certainly useful to find all of the requirements and get them sorted before the Wall Box was fitted.

However my neighbour may have issues going forward. I and the house the other side both have charge points and now he has an EV as well. Apparently once the density of users get up there can be problems getting approval for an installation.
 
I contacted Northern power grid about upgrading the fuse to 100amps. Well I was surprised at the cost. They want £140+vat for the fuse upgrade and then if the box needs upgrading as well its a further £500 + Vat. Making me wonder if this is actually worth moving to EV's form ICE. Why can one company give them for free and another charge so much.
 
Goldie007 said:
I contacted Northern power grid about upgrading the fuse to 100amps. Well I was surprised at the cost. They want £140+vat for the fuse upgrade and then if the box needs upgrading as well its a further £500 + Vat. Making me wonder if this is actually worth moving to EV's form ICE. Why can one company give them for free and another charge so much.
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That's insane, UK Power Networks did both of mine for free. Are you on a shared spur with a neighbour or something?

Simon.
 
Goldie007 said:
I contacted Northern power grid about upgrading the fuse to 100amps. Well I was surprised at the cost. They want £140+vat for the fuse upgrade and then if the box needs upgrading as well it’s a further £500 + Vat. Making me wonder if this is actually worth moving to EV's form ICE. Why can one company give them for free and another charge so much.
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Not sure what you currently have, or what appliances you’re running at same time as charging car - but do you need a 100A fuse? I’ve got an 80A and never seen my Hypervolt throttle back - less chance now I’ve removed the electric shower too
 
I dont know
biffo said:
Not sure what you currently have, or what appliances you’re running at same time as charging car - but do you need a 100A fuse? I’ve got an 80A and never seen my Hypervolt throttle back - less chance now I’ve removed the electric shower too
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dont know what fuse is already in as its an old metal cutout.
 
We cook on electric, have two electric showers, some electric heated flooring plus the immersion and the car and have never gone above 80. Above 60 though, yes almost certainly! They should be able to change the 60 for an 80 with minimal fuss, as long as your tails from the fuse to the meter are ok (mine weren't but I had the meter replaced just before the fuse was done and asked them to upgrade those, they wouldn't have if I hadn't asked).
 
Goldie007 said:
I dont know

dont know what fuse is already in as its an old metal cutout.
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Ah yes if it's like UKPN the metal ones need to be replaced so you would need to do the whole lot. Having said that is the power company insist on changing them then they shouldnt charge for it? I'd make a fuss, ask them what you pay your standing charge for.
 
just spoke to someone on the phone and they confused themselves. Yes I have to pay for the upgraded fuse (only company that charge by the looks) but one minute saying if the upgrade cant be done on the current cut out they will replace free and just charge for the fuse then 2 minutes later say they would charge the £500 as it would be because I requested the fuse upgrade.
 
looks like a ticket to make money. Will see when they call me back if I can find any more info. Looks like its only Northern PowerGrid who are getting greedy and exploiting the customers
 
I had an OHME charger installed by Octopus. More expensive than some quotes I saw, but quick and seamless from start to finish.
Emailed to see about gettin Go as I was buying an EV and wasn't sure if my meter was suitable. Reply the next day to say the had upgraded the meter to SMETs2 remotely and could they help with anything else.
How long to install a charger?
Couple of weeks if your fuse is suitable.
No marking on fuse.
We'll get the connections surveyed.
2 days later, SS&E tech arrives, surveys, checks incomer fuse confirming 100amp, but installed a fresh fuse anyway. Emails fitness report directly to Octopus and I also get a copy.
Fortnight later, 2 Octopus guys turn up in EV vans (impressive move!), one to install and one training on Charger installation.
3 hours on... installed tested and ready to go.

Things like this made the switch from ICE to EV a joy rather than a chore.

Posting this just to provide balance and show not everything abour EV ownership is a pain.
 
Goldie007 said:
I dont know

dont know what fuse is already in as its an old metal cutout.
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Then they are liable at least for the fuse check. I contacted my DNO because the fuse carrier was unmarked so couldn't say what the fuse was that was in there. As the DNO records didn't say either they had to turn out to confirm it was safe.

They then replaced the terminal because it wasn't possible to read the fuse in the carrier as it was seized in. So new terminal, fuse and set up for a TN-S Earth all FOC. They don't know if the fuse was an upgrade as we couldn't check the old one and the earth was because the earth rod head was under a garage slab so couldn't be physically inspected as required (it passed electrically).

I wonder if your cutout mounted fuseholder is not compliant because if so then they are liable to replace it anyway.
 
Goldie007 said:
looks like a ticket to make money. Will see when they call me back if I can find any more info. Looks like its only Northern PowerGrid who are getting greedy and exploiting the customers
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Hi, you can get a charger fitted which has load monitor (current transformer) which will not let the car charge more than the existing I assume 60A fuse. I use a podpoint solo 3 which has this function. There are other manufacturers which do the same.
 
Goldie007 said:
looks like a ticket to make money. Will see when they call me back if I can find any more info. Looks like its only Northern PowerGrid who are getting greedy and exploiting the customers
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I would choose a company / wall box that will suit your requirements.
The company will either come and carry out a visual inspection on your set up, or they will ask you to send over lot's of photo's of your supply / main cut out fuse / consumer unit ( fuse box ) earthing points etc.
It is very likely that the installer will request to your DNO to carry out an upgrade to your main service head / fuse upgrade before starting the install of the wall box.
It is normal for EV installer to contact the DNO on your behalf to request any upgrades first.
Our wall box was installed by a local recommended EV installer, way back in 2015.
He paid a visit to our property and inspected our set up.
At the time, we where running on a 60amp main cut out fuse.
We intended charging on a off - peak tariff and he said that we just needed to be a bit mindful of what other additional loads we placed on the system in the day time hours.
We used this system for over five years and all was absolutely fine !.
Our dumb wall box does NOT have any load balancing features it should be said.
Earlier this year, given the huge increase in the price of energy, we wanted to shift more of our electricity usage into the off-peak tariff.
Therefore I started on the journey of trying to get our DNO to upgrade our 60 Amp fuse to a 100Amp fuse.
When I contacted them, they kept insisting that the request should have been done when the wall box was first installed in 2016.
I explained why it was okay they, but not okay moving forward for our future needs.
It was a bit of a battle getting an appointment to be honest, but after a couple of weeks of trying, they gave me a time slot.
When the lads arrived, they asked if I wanted upgraded to a 80Amp or a 100Amp ( from our present 60 Amp fuse ).
They explained that if I wanted a 80Amp upgrade, it was a five minute job, because the service head for 60 and a 80 was the same size.
If I wanted a 100Amp upgrade, then the complete service head would need to be replaced.
I explained that I wanted future proofing with a 100 Amp fuse.
25 minutes latter and the job was finished and it was a free upgrade.
He hardest job was getting an appointment from the DNO.
Get your installer to request the DNO to carry out the cut out fuse upgrade !!.
They will submit the necessary paperwork / request and will likely get a better response from them.
 
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