LKA useful or a hindrance

[Emgie 4]

Not entirely MG4 specific, but I've been thinking recently of the pros/cons of LKA and LDW.
I fully get the idea of it and potential advantages of keeping you out of oncoming traffic or the ditch, but have serious doubts on whether it's function on REAL roads has benefits that outweigh the drawbacks,
I accept some car makers have done a better job of it than others ( unfortunately MG falls in to the later group - albeit improving)
My thoughts are if a significant proportion of drivers are actively switching it off every time they get in the car, as often said on many forums, and anecdotally I've heard from many friends and mentioned by garages, then is its effectiveness (in its current form) viable?
Which brings me to my second thought we're told it's part of Ncap safety rating and due to this must default to ON - for last couple of years anyway, (and I'm not even gonna there with EU/UK Brexit rules yadda yadda) but my wonder is do the safety ratings people test its effectiveness in the real world on every make of car? or just tick the box it has LKA etc, if so (and at the risk of bringing hellfire down on me) they need to cop the $&#* on, If it ain't a safety improvement don't rate it as such, and too many people have witnessed this 'feature' occasionally pulls the car into incoming traffic (or the ditch)... That's a great safety feature!
Thoughts??

 

[DBedford]

Switch it off!

 

[Diggsy]

My opinion:

Excellent on motorways
Okay on A roads
Dreadful on B roads

…overall I prefer not to have it to be honest. For most drivers there will be more situations where it’s okay at best, than there will where it’s excellent.

 

[Emgie 4]

Switch it off!

Fair enuf, and I (and many many more) do exactly that - but we shouldn't need to repeatedly do it if our area or commute isn't compatible with it then we should be able to leave it off, One size does not fit all !
At a minimum, every car (and many do) should have a physical single button to deselect it - not going through pages on touchscreen -
If we're gonna accept Ncap can't be questioned

My opinion:

Excellent on motorways
Okay on A roads
Dreadful on B roads

…overall I prefer not to have it to be honest. For most drivers there will be more situations where it’s okay at best, than there will where it’s excellent.

Agreed, except in mine on M-ways it sometimes randomly wants to take a slip road - and quite aggressively, then changes its mind just as fast, result being similar to someone momentarily grabbing wheel from my hand!
Don't know is that just my car?? (MG4 my23 Trophy, with R46 software)

 

[Rolfe]

I do not require that any car of mine interferes with my steering. I can see and it can't.

Anybody who needs that, whose driving would be improved by it, shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place. (The couple of occasions in the past when I could have done with something like that, I freely admit I should not have been behind the wheel.)

 

[Emgie 4]

I do not require that any car of mine interferes with my steering. I can see and it can't.

Anybody who needs that, whose driving would be improved by it, shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place. (The couple of occasions in the past when I could have done with something like that, I freely admit I should not have been behind the wheel.)

Totally agree, when seatbelts and airbags came into existence (admittedly not around for first but remember the second) I don't recall either sporadically trying to injur the cars occupants.
Tech and safety need to merge not conflict, and safety regulators need to recognise the difference before they give seal of approval

 

[Rolfe]

I remember the first. The early seat belts didn't have a tension spool that wound them up when not in use - they sort of hung in loops from the side of the car. Not long after we got our first car with seat belts fitted, I was scrambling out of the back of the car, caught my foot in the loop, and fell face down on to the tarmac drive. Some safety feature.

 

[crl84]

Agreed, except in mine on M-ways it sometimes randomly wants to take a slip road - and quite aggressively, then changes its mind just as fast, result being similar to someone momentarily grabbing wheel from my hand!
Don't know is that just my car?? (MG4 my23 Trophy, with R46 software)

Mine is the same, MY22 Trophy with R33

Although it's only happened twice I think, and I've done about 1000km of motorway in the last 2 weeks, and passed many slip road exits without it kicking in.
I think it's probably if you're quite close to the left-hand side of the road, possibly can't see the line on the right, and then sees a big swooping line to the left, it thinks that you're going into almost a 90degree turn.

I think poor road placement by me is the problem the couple of times it's happened TBH

 

[JonnyG]

From my work experience a lot of motorway single vehicle accidents are from drowsy people drifting across lanes and ending up in the crash barrier or ditch (resulting in fatalities in some cases due to the speed). For me this is where LKA is useful and when I would have it turned on (i.e. long motorway journeys).

 

[Rolfe]

These are the occasions I was referring to earlier. I should not have been driving. If it happened to me again I would switch on LKA until I got to a place where I could leave the motorway and take a rest. That's the only usefulness I can think of for it. But nobody should be driving in that condition, even if we've all done it at some time.

 

[Emgie 4]

Mine is the same, MY22 Trophy with R33

Although it's only happened twice I think, and I've done about 1000km of motorway in the last 2 weeks, and passed many slip road exits without it kicking in.
I think it's probably if you're quite close to the left-hand side of the road, possibly can't see the line on the right, and then sees a big swooping line to the left, it thinks that you're going into almost a 90degree turn.

I think poor road placement by me is the problem the couple of times it's happened TBH

Perhaps I was the same, I must watch more closely next time it happens

From my work experience a lot of motorway single vehicle accidents are from drowsy people drifting across lanes and ending up in the crash barrier or ditch (resulting in fatalities in some cases due to the speed). For me this is where LKA is useful and when I would have it turned on (i.e. long motorway journeys).

That's a reasonable logic - but only if the LKA system is performing correctly

 

[bowfer]

My problem with LKA is that it basically insists you stay in your lane, wherever.
Fine on a motorway, but when you’re driving cross country, as I do a lot, sticking religiously to your own side of the road is just bloody stupid.
You’re not a scalextric car pinned into place, you’re free to move and use both sides of the road, where your line of sight allows and it’s safe to do so (obviously)
As a copper biker once said to me “you pay for the whole road, use it”
Fighting LKA as I repeatedly cross the centre line to straighten out some S bends can go poke.

 

[Rolfe]

Agreed.

 

[Ejaydee]

I live in the far west Cornwall, so much of my day to day driving is on narrow country lanes. Having had a couple of really bad experiences with the LKA in the first week I drove the car, I have always switched it off since. However, it is a pain in the backside having to remember to do it. I am of the same mind as @Rolfe in that I do not want any car to steer for me, I am quite capable of doing it myself...thank you!

 

[Emgie 4]

Yes folks, I think I'm of similar opinion, improving safety is always a good idea and whereas the likes of airbags, seatbelts and ABS would always seem a welcome addition to have, I believe things like LKA has times and places it's a helpful aid BUT many other times it's not, and until manufacturers can ideally have a system that can discern when the road type is appropriate for it and when it's not, then at least allow the driver an easy one push option to deselect it, and the Ncap blanket attitude - If a car has the function, it should default to on (or that is the manufacturers take on it) just makes things worse and doesn't align with the real world.

A general search on Ncap rating gave me this;

What is the difference between 4 and 5 star NCAP?

5 stars safety: Overall good performance in crash protection. Well-equipped with robust crash avoidance technology. 4 stars safety: Overall good performance in crash protection; additional crash avoidance technology may be present. 3 stars safety: Average to good occupant protection but lacking crash avoidance ...29 Mar 2023

So one difference between a 4 and 5 rating is 'robust' crash avoidance, I think Ncap need to get their dictionary out and look up robust,
My earlier question stands - do Ncap just tick the box for LKA etc without any comprehensive testing on real road variables?

 

[mg4mc]

NCAP only test ELK & LKA on a straight track with defined lane markings. Those markings being a dashed centre line, and solid centre line, both with and without a solid edge marking.

They do not consider how the systems behave on any other type of road.

Ref: https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/29410/euro-ncap-lss-test-protocol-v20.pdf

 

[Jef]

Mine was crap and dangerous when the car was delivered (November, 1st batch) but since the software upgrade tamed it down I no longer bother to turn it off whatever the road. I fully take the point about straight lining when visibility allows, still do that with just a slight twitch of the steering wheel and a warning beep, but I know it's coming so not an issue.

As a side issue, I am now seeing more 4's in the local area, most recently an SR SE in the same colour as mine (blue) but without the privacy glass which early cars had, here's hoping they don't remove that when they take away the outside temperature display!

 

[Guru]

LKA seems OKish on Motorways and large A roads however for those of us that live in the middle of nowhere it's bloody dangerous. We have to disable ours on every start simply because it will randomly decide to try to pull us onto the nearest verge or ditch.

 

[bowfer]

I’m a bit flummoxed that no one on this forum seems tech savvy enough to have plugged a laptop into the OBD and switched off the LKA.
I’m not, I admit that.
It’s unusual, there’s been people willing to tinker on every other car forum I’ve been in for decades.

 

[Emgie 4]

NCAP only test ELK & LKA on a straight track with defined lane markings. Those markings being a dashed centre line, and solid centre line, both with and without a solid edge marking.

They do not consider how the systems behave on any other type of road.

Ref: https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/29410/euro-ncap-lss-test-protocol-v20.pdf

Great stuff, that protocol's exactly what I was looking for - but failed to find
So good and bad I take from it, I was fortunately not right, Ncap don't just tick a box they do some level of detailed testing to prove system functionality, but unfortunately (and I have to accept practically) their testing has limitations that won't cover a lot of real world conditions most if us meet on our daily journeys
I guess it's just a pity some manufacturers have managed to engineer these driving/safety aids almost seamlessly into their cars so they sit quietly in the background until really needed, while others - not so much, and more of a crude feature needing refinement.
But perhaps that's inevitable that car makers who've been perfecting it longer and maybe with bigger R&D budgets will have better systems until the others catch up.

I’m a bit flummoxed that no one on this forum seems tech savvy enough to have plugged a laptop into the OBD and switched off the LKA.
I’m not, I admit that.
It’s unusual, there’s been people willing to tinker on every other car forum I’ve been in for decades.

Good point, one reason that pops into my mind, whether we like to agree with it or not LKA is considered a safety system (tho many would just say a driver's aid) and any tinkering with a safety system opens a hornets nest of issues, warranty invalidated for starters.
God forbid an accident happens and the change is found in the investigation (regardless if LKA related to crash) I think any judge would throw the book at u - and then throw the key away.
Most lads tinkering via OBD/software are doing it mostly for power gains (that also may have consequences but I'd suspect on a lesser scale)
Also I suspect a lot of that group aren't embracing the EV transition yet, and for now are sticking with ICE cars
Lastly EV makers are much more likely to monitor their cars, often remotely OTA, some even with ability to remotely disable and leave you stranded (Tesla)