Max charge with type 2 cable

[marshy84]

Ahhh, makes sense now. So the charger is a 3-phase so will need a 3-phase cable. So the cable that has been provided is probably more suited to home chargers which are single phase and would result in the 7kW charge rate?

 

[dsimpkins]

Yes, that's spot on

 

[rjhfandclf]

Sorry to raise this again after a couple of months, but I'm that far behind with a new ER Trophy ... and still trying to get my head round everything.

Am I right in assuming that you fortunate people above have the Phase One LR cars with 11kW on-board chargers, whereas my new Phase Two ER suffers from more recent Chinese cost-savings with the mere 7kW charger? And so is is my understanding correct that all the earlier 11kW cars will accept a 3-phase charge against just a single-phase for 7kW cars?

The reason for my query is because many of the French smaller-town type-2 public charge-points, convenient for me (mainly Mobive), are designated "22kW, AC1 or AC3, 400 volt, 32A". So on the basis of what (I think) I have understood from posts above, the max rate my 7kW on-board charger will pull from these charge-points is likely to be up to 6 or 7kW at the most (as, hopefully, with my new Zappi home charger once installed). Thus, I have just purchased a type-2 single-phase 32A charging cable for both purposes, as I assumed that my originally-intended 3-phase 32A cable would be superfluous for my car in any circumstances ... or have I still got it all wrong?!

 

[Grriff]

You're correct. The maximum AC charge the car will take is 7kW.

 

[rjhfandclf]

You're correct. The maximum AC charge the car will take is 7kW.

Many thanks ...

 

[siteguru]

But ... I thought that the ER should have 11kW 3-phase charging. (I thought it was the only one of the range now with 3-phase charging).

The only way to confirm is to physically look at the charge port on the car ... if there are metal pins in the L2 and L3 slots then it's 3-phase.

 

[rjhfandclf]

But ... I thought that the ER should have 11kW 3-phase charging. (I thought it was the only one of the range now with 3-phase charging).

The only way to confirm is to physically look at the charge port on the car ... if there are metal pins in the L2 and L3 slots then it's 3-phase.

... Hence my on-going confusionand frustration, which could so easily be clarified by a bit of forethought, or even plain English documentaion from MG!

But no; my understanding from all I have read and seen, is that the newer phase two (and this MG-utilised expression alone appears to have confused numerous people vis-a vis phase-1 and 3-phase power supply!) vehicles have all been reverted back to 7kW chargers. ... and yes, mine (delivered late November 2023) is clearly single-phase (i.e., for the sake of others, (and very regrettably for me) no 3-phase connectors to L2 or L3 pins).

I suspect that MG has now concluded (totally erroneously and very mistakenly in my view) that since very few domestic properties in the UK run on 3-phase (thus totally failing to recognise, presumably, the probably now thoroughly disenfranchised and equally rather angry group, such as farmers and small businesses, which all run on 3-phase supplies) that they don't need to provide the tiny extra cost of continuing 3-phase ability. Such is the foolishness of short-termism.

 

[Jomarkh]

The MG4's that have 3 phase charging don't get the full 11kW while charging but just over 9kW so not much more than the 6.5kW from a single phase type2 EVSE.

 

[dsimpkins]

@rjhfandclf Don't forget those that can charge at work, and also desire 3 phase for the chargers at their workplace.

@Jomarkh I have a phase 1 SE LR with 3 phase, and get close to 10kW while charging on a 3 phase charger. It's closer to 10 than 9kW.

 

[Coulomb]

just over 9kW so not much more than the 6.5kW from a single phase type2 EVSE

Well it's 50% more. That's pretty significant in my book.

Edit: Basically 3 x 3.3 kW versus 2 x 3.3 kW.

What ideally should be happening is that the car should detect that only one phase is available, and if the cable is rated for 32A, connect two 3.3kW on-board chargers to the single available phase (usually L1). The car can tell the current rating of the cable by a resistor in one of the control wires. Teslas and most other EVs with 11kW on-board chargers do this switching automatically.

I actually thought that MGs do this as well. So it's possible that your car's charging circuit is faulty (perhaps a relay is missing or its drive circuit). Good luck explaining the problem to your dealer, and getting it fixed under warranty.

But if MGs simply omit this circuit, a workaround would be to get your electrician to wire L1 and L2 both to the same phase, and use a 3-phase cable instead of the one you have now. It should not be a 16A rated cable, as the neutral conductor will be carrying 32A, even though two of the live wires will be carrying only 16A, and one will be unused (0A).

It will be interesting to find out if other MGs have the same issue. Would any owners with 11kW chargers care to comment?

 

[GaryMG4]

I'm pretty sure I saw 10.5 kW from a Genii charger when I first got my car, I'm not sure if that was the charger or car showing this figure but more recently I tried a Tesco '22kW' charger and only got around 7 despite being the only car charging.

 

[PeteC]

@Jomarkh I have a phase 1 SE LR with 3 phase, and get close to 10kW while charging on a 3 phase charger. It's closer to 10 than 9kW.

My phase 1 Trophy usually shows between 9.6 and 9.8 on a 22kW charger, so very similar.

 

[rjhfandclf]

@rjhfandclf Don't forget those that can charge at work, and also desire 3 phase for the chargers at their workplace.

Indeed! I should have said all businesses - bigger and smaller, where 3-phase is the norm.

Well it's 50% more. That's pretty significant in my book.

Edit: Basically 3 x 3.3 kW versus 2 x 3.3 kW.

It certainly can add up to significance in France, where the small-town chargers mentioned tend to operate a very significant penalty of up to 0.10€/min for anything over 3 hours, sometimes taking charging costs to well over 1-1.25€/ kWh ... so you don't want to hang around too long.

What ideally should be happening is that the car should detect that only one phase is available, and if the cable is rated for 32A, connect two 3.3kW on-board chargers to the single available phase (usually L1). The car can tell the current rating of the cable by a resistor in one of the control wires. Teslas and most other EVs with 11kW on-board chargers do this switching automatically.

I actually thought that MGs do this as well. So it's possible that your car's charging circuit is faulty (perhaps a relay is missing or its drive circuit). Good luck explaining the problem to your dealer, and getting it fixed under warranty.

But if MGs simply omit this circuit, a workaround would be to get your electrician to wire L1 and L2 both to the same phase, and use a 3-phase cable instead of the one you have now. It should not be a 16A rated cable, as the neutral conductor will be carrying 32A, even though two of the live wires will be carrying only 16A, and one will be unused (0A).

It will be interesting to find out if other MGs have the same issue. Would any owners with 11kW chargers care to comment?

I think you're asking me to do something that MG should have done ... or left well alone! Why does a firm with the historic name of MG* jeopardise the 'home' market? I'm not sure about those on the sunnier side of the world, but all EU market cars are still 11kW as far as I can tell.

* NB I bought my first 1938 MG TA in 1963 (already 25 years old - and still going 'strong' somewhere, as far as I know), and my second, a 1962 Mk1 Midget in 1966 - but don't ask for comparisons ... something about 'chalk and cheese' comes to mind!

 

[GaryMG4]

Indeed! I should have said all businesses - bigger and smaller, where 3-phase is the norm.

It certainly can add up to significance in France, where the small-town chargers mentioned tend to operate a very significant penalty of up to 0.10€/min for anything over 3 hours, sometimes taking charging costs to well over 1-1.25€/ kW ... so you don't want to hang around too long.


I think your asking me to do something that MG should have done ... or left well alone! Why does a firm with the historic name of MG* jeopardise the 'home' market? I'm not sure about those on the sunnier side of the world, but all EU market cars are still 11kW as far as I can tell.

* NB I bought my first 1938 MG TA in 1963 (already 25 years old - and still going 'strong' somewhere, as far as I know), and my second, a 1962 Mk1 Midget in 1966 - but don't ask for comparisons ... something about 'chalk and cheese' comes to mind!

I bought my B in 1985, had it for 18 years, last time I looked it was still going. Only had 2 hoods, doors, front wings, inner and outer seals, new seats.... hmm Triggers broom comes to mind.

 

[rjhfandclf]

I bought my B in 1985, had it for 18 years, last time I looked it was still going. Only had 2 hoods, doors, front wings, inner and outer seals, new seats.... hmm Triggers broom comes to mind.

I like it!