Max rapid charge rate

Mcgrst

Novice Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2023
Messages
8
Reaction score
4
Points
1
Location
Scotland
Driving
MG ZS EV
I've just done a trip from Edinburgh to Yorkshire with my ZS SR (MK2).

Turned into a bit more of an odessy than I'd have liked but on the two rapids I never got more than 42kw delivered.

Car had been on the motorway for 2 hours by the first stop and I even had the traction battery heater on for a while before I stopped. Ambient temperature was about 10°c so I wouldn't have thought temperature was a problem and both chargers were modern 350kw nominal.

Tldr: ever get the rated 80kw in the brochures?
 
I've just done a trip from Edinburgh to Yorkshire with my ZS SR (MK2).

Turned into a bit more of an odessy than I'd have liked but on the two rapids I never got more than 42kw delivered.

Car had been on the motorway for 2 hours by the first stop and I even had the traction battery heater on for a while before I stopped. Ambient temperature was about 10°c so I wouldn't have thought temperature was a problem and both chargers were modern 350kw nominal.

Tldr: ever get the rated 80kw in the brochures?
Yes - this is a Long Range with a BP Pulse after a long drive but no pre heat.
IMG_3611.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3614.jpeg
    IMG_3614.jpeg
    436 KB · Views: 80
Last edited:
There are a lot of potential factors which can impact charging speeds. Some relate to the car itself, such as battery temperature and current state of charge.

Others relate to the charger itself and how it is set up. Tesla V2 Superchargers for example had a single stall with two charging cables for two cars. The stall was rated as 150kw max. If only one car was plugged in, you'd achieve close to that 150kw. But if cars were plugged into both cables, that 150kw for the stall was shared between the two cables, giving a max of 75kw per car. Hence a charging etiquette developed of using completely free spaces first, then filling up the secondary charging spaces only when necessary. V3 Superchargers are single cable chargers which deliver the full charge to each bay.

Different manufacturers will have different systems, which may even vary by location. You could for example have three completely separate looking 350kw rapid chargers, but which all share a single incoming power supply from the grid and which are therefore sharing power output even if they look independent. They could also be throttled remotely for grid management (some Gridserve rapid chargers that I've come across have been turned off completely, with signs saying they've been asked by MotoServices to turn them off while the grid is upgraded as they've been causing power outages in the service station itself).

It's one of the main problems with EV adoption and electrifying homes more widely. The cars and heat pumps etc are all great, but the national grid infrastructure to supply the necessary power is lagging significantly behind demand.

Finally, there can just be a difference between the charger's infrastructure and the car's infrastructure. Power (in kw) is a product of voltage (v) and current (a). When you plug in a charger, the screen will usually first say it is "communicating" with the vehicle. It's essentially matching up the two systems to govern the transfer of power. If there is an imbalance between the two, such as if the car battery charges at a voltage of below 500v, then the charger will throttle output so as not to exceed current.

In summary, there are many factors that can lead to lower charging rates than advertised and it takes a fairly ideal set of circumstances to ever achieve the top charging rates - the exception is charging at home, where if you're using a dedicated 32A wall charger and aren't proactively throttling it yourself, you should always be getting your 7kw rate.
 
There are a lot of potential factors which can impact charging speeds. Some relate to the car itself, such as battery temperature and current state of charge.

Others relate to the charger itself and how it is set up. Tesla V2 Superchargers for example had a single stall with two charging cables for two cars. The stall was rated as 150kw max. If only one car was plugged in, you'd achieve close to that 150kw. But if cars were plugged into both cables, that 150kw for the stall was shared between the two cables, giving a max of 75kw per car. Hence a charging etiquette developed of using completely free spaces first, then filling up the secondary charging spaces only when necessary. V3 Superchargers are single cable chargers which deliver the full charge to each bay.

Different manufacturers will have different systems, which may even vary by location. You could for example have three completely separate looking 350kw rapid chargers, but which all share a single incoming power supply from the grid and which are therefore sharing power output even if they look independent. They could also be throttled remotely for grid management (some Gridserve rapid chargers that I've come across have been turned off completely, with signs saying they've been asked by MotoServices to turn them off while the grid is upgraded as they've been causing power outages in the service station itself).

It's one of the main problems with EV adoption and electrifying homes more widely. The cars and heat pumps etc are all great, but the national grid infrastructure to supply the necessary power is lagging significantly behind demand.

Finally, there can just be a difference between the charger's infrastructure and the car's infrastructure. Power (in kw) is a product of voltage (v) and current (a). When you plug in a charger, the screen will usually first say it is "communicating" with the vehicle. It's essentially matching up the two systems to govern the transfer of power. If there is an imbalance between the two, such as if the car battery charges at a voltage of below 500v, then the charger will throttle output so as not to exceed current.

In summary, there are many factors that can lead to lower charging rates than advertised and it takes a fairly ideal set of circumstances to ever achieve the top charging rates - the exception is charging at home, where if you're using a dedicated 32A wall charger and aren't proactively throttling it yourself, you should always be getting your 7kw rate.
That's all true but doesn't explain why I'm getting half what folk/mg seem to expect.
 
That's all true but doesn't explain why I'm getting half what folk/mg seem to expect.
Respectfully, any one of those factors or a combination thereof could be why your previous two charging sessions didn't exceed 42kw.

The 80kw in MG's brochures isn't an expectation of charging at that speed. It's the maximum the car's infrastructure is capable of handling.
 
Respectfully, any one of those factors or a combination thereof could be why your previous two charging sessions didn't exceed 42kw.

The 80kw in MG's brochures isn't an expectation of charging at that speed. It's the maximum the car's infrastructure is capable of handling.
So armed with the knowledge above how can I maximise my chances of getting a decent charging rate? 40kw is okay but it's far from ideal.
 
I'm subscribed to a guy on YT who has a Polestar 2 & they have the exact same problems with charging infrastructure & charging speeds. He explains why you don't get the advertised charging speed with some chargers. Worth a watch if you've got half an hour or so to spare.
 
I'm subscribed to a guy on YT who has a Polestar 2 & they have the exact same problems with charging infrastructure & charging speeds. He explains why you don't get the advertised charging speed with some chargers. Worth a watch if you've got half an hour or so to spare.

Cheers, will do.
 
So armed with the knowledge above how can I maximise my chances of getting a decent charging rate? 40kw is okay but it's far from ideal.

Honestly, you can't. Other than when you choose to charge battery percentage wise (charging a battery when it is at a lower state of charge will usually allow for a faster rate of charge. As the battery charges, that rate will decline).

Battery temperature makes a difference but you can't really do anything about that on an MG (if you have a Supercharger entered into a Tesla's satnav it will precondition the battery to optimal temperature for when you arrive, so that you'll get the fastest rates - essentially using a bit of battery to subsequently charge it faster). You can't do that on an MG so isn't something you can "do" to improve charging.

You're essentially at the mercy of the various circumstances I set out above but with no way of knowing (you can't see if the charger is being remotely throttled, if there are national grid limitations to the site etc).

The only real thing you can do to improve chances, if this is even possible when you arrive at a charger, is to try and choose a completely free stall (i.e. not a stall that has two cables, with one in use) and if there are multiple stalls, try and choose one as far from the next one in use as possible. That'll be the best chance of having one that isn't sharing incoming power with another stall, although no guarantee.

(For what it's worth, my old Nissan Leaf used the CHAdeMO "rapid charger" standard, which is thankfully now defunct. They charged at a maximum rate of 46kw and on the rare occasion you actually managed to find a CHAdeMO charger at a motorway services, you'd be lucky to pull anything faster than 20kw).

I'm subscribed to a guy on YT who has a Polestar 2 & they have the exact same problems with charging infrastructure & charging speeds. He explains why you don't get the advertised charging speed with some chargers. Worth a watch if you've got half an hour or so to spare.


At the start, he says that the 150kw charging station has been fitted with 200A cables by mistake, as they will only allow a maximum of 80kw to be delivered. I suspect it wasn't a mistake at all. It's more likely to me that it's the same point I made above about the 150kw rate being for the stall itself and the cables essentially act as a physical rather than remote throttle on power being delivered to each vehicle (i.e. 2 x 80 = 160kw and within range of the 150kw rating).

For context, the below screengrabs are my last five Tesla charges using a Supercharger. The car has a maximum DC charge rate of 250kw. I was using 150kw chargers. The highest rate it ever hit was 127kw and that was peak. The highest average speed for any charge was 79kw, so about half of the chargers' rated power delivery. I suspect the others stalls were in use.

None of that bothers me, because a 25 minute charge (long enough to pop in for a coffee and loo break with a two year old), adds 100+ miles of range, which is usually more than I need if I left with a full charge anyway. But that obviously depends on the car you have, your max range when you leave and how long a journey you have etc.

1.png





2.png


3.png



4.png



5.png
 
To be honest, when I rapid charge (which isn't that often), I just plug it in, tap the debit card, go and find some amenities to empty my bladder, grab a drink and a bite to eat if I'm peckish, and come back a while later to unplug and drive off. I've never bothered looking at the charging speed. :)
 
To be honest, when I rapid charge (which isn't that often), I just plug it in, tap the debit card, go and find some amenities to empty my bladder, grab a drink and a bite to eat if I'm peckish, and come back a while later to unplug and drive off. I've never bothered looking at the charging speed. :)
I totally agree with your philosophy. It takes what it takes and that is about the same as a p and a coffee. Too many variables to worry about it.
 
To be honest, when I rapid charge (which isn't that often), I just plug it in, tap the debit card, go and find some amenities to empty my bladder, grab a drink and a bite to eat if I'm peckish, and come back a while later to unplug and drive off. I've never bothered looking at the charging speed. :)

I totally agree with your philosophy. It takes what it takes and that is about the same as a p and a coffee. Too many variables to worry about it.

Agreed on both. I think with EVs, there's a lot of data and general numbers that are available to drivers (range, battery percentages, charge rates, miles per kWh etc) that its very easy to get caught up in and obsess over. Which can be fun in a geeky way if approached properly. A lot of it probably stems from the wider media narrative on EVs too around queues for chargers and range anxiety and breakdowns etc.

I just stop when I would normally stop, whether that would be for a drink, rest stop, let my daughter stretch her legs etc, plug in while I do and by the time we're ready to go it's normally charged up more than enough. If it isn't then it's just a case of waiting a few minutes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Agreed on both. I think with EVs, there's a lot of data and general numbers that are available to drivers (range, battery percentages, charge rates, miles per kwh etc) that its very easy to get caught up in and obsess over. Which can be fun in a geeky way if approached properly. A lot of it probably stems from the wider media narrative on EVs too around queues for chargers and range anxiety and breakdowns etc.

I just stop when I would normally stop, whether that would be for a drink, rest stop, let my daughter stretch her legs etc, plug in while I do and by the time we're ready to go it's normally charged up more than enough. If it isn't then it's just a case of waiting a few minutes.
Generally I'd agree, but my journey the other day needed two stops. The first we stopped had lunch and it didn't necessarily matter how long it took. We got to 80% just as we got back. The second¹ was just in a car park with very few facilities and had that stop been 10 minutes instead of 20 odds the kids in the back would have been much happier.

¹ not that it would have mattered if the batch of chargers we stopped at 20 miles earlier had worked.
 
Generally I'd agree, but my journey the other day needed two stops. The first we stopped had lunch and it didn't necessarily matter how long it took. We got to 80% just as we got back. The second¹ was just in a car park with very few facilities and had that stop been 10 minutes instead of 20 odds the kids in the back would have been much happier.

¹ not that it would have mattered if the batch of chargers we stopped at 20 miles earlier had worked.

Reliability is a real issue. The Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 were laid in draft before Parliament in July. If they eventually move from draft to actually being made (and there's no clear timetable for doing so), then they'll require all public rapid chargers to achieve at least 99% reliability (with heavy financial penalties against the operator if they don't meet that target), live reporting to a publicly available app as to each charger's availability, working status and price, and contactless payment at each charger.

Hopefully that'll do something to improve reliability and access. The cars are great, but the public infrastructure is seriously lagging behind.
 
Hi, @Mcgrst . Yesterday, I did a very long travel and had the same issue with 5 chargers in 4 different charging stations along my way. First charges ok. Last 4 or 5, it charged at no more than 40 kw. I have a MG Marvel R. The SoC was 23%. Did you find out the reason?
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2023-12-24-04-40-08-593_es.easycharger.app.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-12-24-04-40-08-593_es.easycharger.app.jpg
    131.8 KB · Views: 58
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

MG3 Hybrid+ & Cyberster Configurator News + hot topics from the MG EVs forums
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom