MG4 reliability

[gdog]

You are comparing apple and pears. We have no idea why cars are sorned as the owner doesn't need to provide this information.

MG's presumably have a lot of older people driving them so they could be more likely for the owners to be in long term situations where they cannot use their car and maybe chose to SORN. However, those owners potentially could be offset by business owners, or any other type of owner.

Who knows, the point is SORN data is irrelevant to how reliable a car is. Plenty of people here will have cars that are basket cases, but they aren't sorning them.

I know it's difficult to draw comparison when looking at a fruit bowl. But the fruit is either eatable or not so maybe it's still relevant.

I don't think there are more old people driving BEVs. So I don't think thats a factor.

Thing is if they aren't drivable they would be SORNed. So why the disparity. I concede reliability was a poor word choice. Still interesting disparity between BEV & ICE

 

[T1 Terry]

You are comparing apple and pears. We have no idea why cars are sorned as the owner doesn't need to provide this information.

MG's presumably have a lot of older people driving them so they could be more likely for the owners to be in long term situations where they cannot use their car and maybe chose to SORN. However, those owners potentially could be offset by business owners, or any other type of owner.

Who knows, the point is SORN data is irrelevant to how reliable a car is. Plenty of people here will have cars that are basket cases, but they aren't sorning them.

Maybe, but if they don't pass your roadworthy equivalent, the MOT, and the repair cost compared to replacement cost says it's not worth fixing, then does that put it in the SORN category and because it failed the MOT, then it might be classed as a reliability thing ....

T1 Terry

 

[siteguru]

SORN relates to taxation - Vehicle Excise Duty. It has nothing to do with vehicle safety or roadworthiness.

Very few cars which are written off will be kept by the owner and SORNed, to try and repair and bring back to life. Write offs are effectively scrapped and removed from the VED register altogether. (Or registered as scrapped - never as SORN).

 

[gdog]

I can't really explain it any differently ... it's about scale. The larger the sample size, the greater the probability of something occurring. Pro-rating doesn't apply linearly vs sample size.

You can see that the sample size isn't much greater tho.

 

[gdog]

SORN relates to taxation - Vehicle Excise Duty. It has nothing to do with vehicle safety or roadworthiness.

Very few cars which are written off will be kept by the owner and SORNed, to try and repair and bring back to life. Write offs are effectively scrapped and removed from the VED register altogether. (Or registered as scrapped - never as SORN).

Written off cars will be SORNed unless the want to pay tax on it

 

[T1 Terry]

SORN relates to taxation - Vehicle Excise Duty. It has nothing to do with vehicle safety or roadworthiness.

Very few cars which are written off will be kept by the owner and SORNed, to try and repair and bring back to life. Write offs are effectively scrapped and removed from the VED register altogether. (Or registered as scrapped - never as SORN).

Confusion reigned and they all get wet .....
SORN stands for Statutory Off Road Notification, from the OP, if the vehicle was not a financially prospect to return to a roadworthy condition, then there is a relationship between the two terms ..... isn't there

T1 Terry

 

[T1 Terry]

Written off cars will be SORNed unless the want to pay tax on it

So, you pay tax on the vehicle, even if it isn't registered to be on the road?
This just get stranger and stranger

T1 Terry

 

[MG Clive]

Written off cars are written off, they are no longer on the system, a car can't be written off and sorn.

 

[gary333]

I know it's difficult to draw comparison when looking at a fruit bowl. But the fruit is either eatable or not so maybe it's still relevant.

I don't think there are more old people driving BEVs. So I don't think thats a factor.

Thing is if they aren't drivable they would be SORNed. So why the disparity. I concede reliability was a poor word choice. Still interesting disparity between BEV & ICE

Your hypothesis was that SORN data has a correlation with reliability (specifically related to an MG4). I don't know what you're trying to prove, but whatever it is, the sorn data is not fit for purpose for ascertaining the correlation for an MG4. Yes, the data might show trends, but as you have no other variables to compare against, then you are just making straw mans.

 

[gdog]

So, you pay tax on the vehicle, even if it isn't registered to be on the road?
This just get stranger and stranger

T1 Terry

Yeah I mean that is just nonsense. So 2022+ cars that are roadworthy will not be SORNed. Some may be SORNed during car sales maybe.

 

[gdog]

Written off cars are written off, they are no longer on the system, a car can't be written off and sorn.

that not correct. in the UK written off cars must be SORNed. otherwise the owner at that time is liable for tax

 

[MG Clive]

that not correct. in the UK written off cars must be SORNed. otherwise the owner at that time is liable for tax

Sorry, I meant scrapped cars, but most written off cars will be scrapped anyway.

 

[gdog]

Your hypothesis was that SORN data has a correlation with reliability (specifically related to an MG4). I don't know what you're trying to prove, but whatever it is, the sorn data is not fit for purpose for ascertaining the correlation for an MG4. Yes, the data might show trends, but as you have no other variables to compare against, then you are just making straw mans.

i previously conceded that reliability was a poor choice or words. roadworthy is better

 

[Tuareg]

Hyundai

1. Correlation Between SORNs and Reliability

• ICCU Failures: A major factor in Hyundai EV reliability concerns is the Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU). When this component fails, it can render the car inoperable. A high volume of these failures often results in vehicles being parked for long periods awaiting parts, leading to SORN, especially among 2021-2022 Ioniq 5 and Kona models.
• High Failure Rates: Reports from 2025 and early 2026 indicate that the Hyundai Ioniq Electric (2016-2022) and Ioniq 5 (2021-present) have experienced high failure rates, with some data suggesting they are among the less reliable EVs, largely due to 12-volt battery and ICCU issues.
  
  
• Extended Downtime: In surveys, a significant portion of affected Hyundai EV owners (up to 70% in some reports) reported their cars were off the road for more than a week, and sometimes months, due to parts supply issues. A car that is not driveable for months is highly likely to be SORNed to avoid unnecessary insurance/tax costs.
  How SORN Data Indicates Reliability

Tesla

• How SORN Data Indicates Reliability
  • Long-Term Reliability Issues: SORN data is often higher for older Tesla models (e.g., older Model S and X) that may suffer from battery or drivetrain issues, making them uneconomical to repair, particularly because of high repair costs, with EV repairs averaging £858.50 compared to £668.45 for ICE vehicles.
  • High Fault Rates: Reports have indicated that certain Tesla models (like the S and X) had "disastrously high fault rates" and long stays in the garage, causing owners to take them off the road.
  • Specific Model Issues: While the Tesla Model 3 is popular, it still has a significant number of SORNs, and in some studies, it has shown higher claim rates for issues compared to other EVs.
  • Quality Control Concerns: Older used Teslas (5–10 years old) have ranked low in dependability, with reports citing issues with body hardware, paint, and trim.

 

[gdog]

Sorry, I meant scrapped cars, but most written off cars will be scrapped anyway.

yes that makes sense. maybe just SORNed at transition to being scrapped. but that would be the same for both ICE & BEV

 

[siteguru]

Sorry, I meant scrapped cars, but most written off cars will be scrapped anyway.

Which is exactly what I said earlier yet @gdog disagreed.

 

[gdog]

Hyundai

1. Correlation Between SORNs and Reliability

• ICCU Failures: A major factor in Hyundai EV reliability concerns is the Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU). When this component fails, it can render the car inoperable. A high volume of these failures often results in vehicles being parked for long periods awaiting parts, leading to SORN, especially among 2021-2022 Ioniq 5 and Kona models.
• High Failure Rates: Reports from 2025 and early 2026 indicate that the Hyundai Ioniq Electric (2016-2022) and Ioniq 5 (2021-present) have experienced high failure rates, with some data suggesting they are among the less reliable EVs, largely due to 12-volt battery and ICCU issues.
  
  
• Extended Downtime: In surveys, a significant portion of affected Hyundai EV owners (up to 70% in some reports) reported their cars were off the road for more than a week, and sometimes months, due to parts supply issues. A car that is not driveable for months is highly likely to be SORNed to avoid unnecessary insurance/tax costs.
  How SORN Data Indicates Reliability

Tesla

• How SORN Data Indicates Reliability
  • Long-Term Reliability Issues: SORN data is often higher for older Tesla models (e.g., older Model S and X) that may suffer from battery or drivetrain issues, making them uneconomical to repair, particularly because of high repair costs, with EV repairs averaging £858.50 compared to £668.45 for ICE vehicles.
  • High Fault Rates: Reports have indicated that certain Tesla models (like the S and X) had "disastrously high fault rates" and long stays in the garage, causing owners to take them off the road.
  • Specific Model Issues: While the Tesla Model 3 is popular, it still has a significant number of SORNs, and in some studies, it has shown higher claim rates for issues compared to other EVs.
  • Quality Control Concerns: Older used Teslas (5–10 years old) have ranked low in dependability, with reports citing issues with body hardware, paint, and trim.

but i only included 2022+ cars in comparison and BEVs had lower SORN % than ICE

 

[gdog]

Which is exactly what I said earlier yet @gdog disagreed.

what is the usefulness of this reply? @MG Clive clarified his position and i agreed.

anyway i would argue that scrap numbers are extremely low given Between January 2023 and June 2025, only 3,250 electric vehicles were scrapped in the UK and i would imagine the majority of those are crashed. so SORNed are most likely potentially repairable but not roadworthy.

 

[Chrisdriving]

Is it just me?

 

[salty]

Is it just me?

No it's not.