Old stock bargains

[Sparky2]

Makes me wonder why you ever got an EV.

I do too sometimes. I believed the hype and the alleged environmental advantages which now seem rather questionable. I self-built the first EPC Band A passive house in County Durham which included solar PV panels, storage batteries and an EV charger (to take advantage of the grant at the time). We bought a secondhand BMW i3 by click and collect during Covid restrictions and my wife fell in love with the ease of driving it and the cute styling. I still had a BMW 335d M-Sport X-Drive at the time so that got used for long journeys. The i3 developed an HT electrical fault which prompted a trade-in against the MG4. Don't get me wrong, I love driving the MG with all the 'driver aids' switched off. I just wish the range was better, the user interface was much better and the public charging facilities much, much better. When it stops raining, I will be out in our 1949 Alvis or my 1999 Jaguar XKR

At the end of the day, I am a 73 year old Analogue Man in a digital world

 

[Paulie68]

I do too sometimes. I believed the hype and the alleged environmental advantages which now seem rather questionable. I self-built the first EPC Band A passive house in County Durham which included solar PV panels, storage batteries and an EV charger (to take advantage of the grant at the time). We bought a secondhand BMW i3 by click and collect during Covid restrictions and my wife fell in love with the ease of driving it and the cute styling. I still had a BMW 335d M-Sport X-Drive at the time so that got used for long journeys. The i3 developed an HT electrical fault which prompted a trade-in against the MG4. Don't get me wrong, I love driving the MG with all the 'driver aids' switched off. I just wish the range was better, the user interface was much better and the public charging facilities much, much better. When it stops raining, I will be out in our 1949 Alvis or my 1999 Jaguar XKR

At the end of the day, I am a 73 year old Analogue Man in a digital world

Well it's not hype, it's facts. EV's are just better cars all around. The environmental advantages are also not "alleged" but very real comparing like for like ICE and EV cars cradle to grave for the given vehicle itself and fuel source.

The driver aids, I get that, they can be annoying, but that's not just EV's, it's any new car today!

I also like classics, have a 1954 VW at the moment and will be adding another to the collection during the course of this year

 

[LenEV2016]

The MG4 Trophy LR replaced a BMW i3 which had half the range of the MG. I still miss the simplicity of driving the i3 without interference from the MG's so-called 'driver safety aids' which are bonkers

My main points are that (almost) affordable EVs have short ranges and real long-range EVs like the Tesla and Polestar are unaffordable for ordinary folk. I have tried driving the i3 and the MG on long journeys and almost without exception, re-charging away from home has been a nightmare. I have lost count of the number of times I have been standing alongside an EV charger in the pouring rain trying to download an app (or get an existing app to work). Contrast this with re-fuelling an ICE car under a canopy and paying with your bank card. 5 minutes versus at least 30 minutes for an EV

Our MG4 is mostly charged at home during the night on Octopus IOG using a Zappi charger but if there is a power outage (quite common in the Pennines) or a software update in any of the various bits of interlinked digital kit in the garage, the whole system just falls over and the charge fails

If these issues were not real, the take-up of EVs would have advanced much faster. I predict that EVs will increase market share but they will never succeed in replacing ICE cars across the board. In theory (and often in practice) running an EV can be cheaper than running an ICE car but they are still too expensive to buy and there is still too much inconvenience in re-charging and range anxiety to convince most people to make the transition. The end of zero car tax for EVs just makes things worse

I don't recognise any of these issues. As has been said I tap my electroverse card and it always works, exactly like your bank card you mention.

If you are going on a long journey why would you not already have a couple of apps setup before hand, it's almost like people want problems.

5 minutes of prep before you leave and there are no issues

 

[Sparky2]

Well it's not hype, it's facts. EV's are just better cars all around. The environmental advantages are also not "alleged" but very real comparing like for like ICE and EV cars cradle to grave for the given vehicle itself and fuel source.

The driver aids, I get that, they can be annoying, but that's not just EV's, it's any new car today!

I also like classics, have a 1954 VW at the moment and will be adding another to the collection during the course of this year

I do agree that in order to secure an NCAP 5-star safety rating car makers have been forced to incorporate these wretched 'driver safety aids' in all new cars on the mistaken basis that they will turn feckless idiots into safe drivers. Touchscreens are way more dangerous than knobs and switches

I am old enough to remember the hype behind diesel cars when we were persuaded to move away from more polluting petrol cars to diesel ones that did more mpg. That went really well

The environmental hype behind EVs is real. Most of them are built in Chinese factories powered by coal-fired power stations and across the planet, most EVs are powered by electricity produced by burning fossil fuels of one sort or another. The embodied energy in a new car, EV or ICE, is massive so the most environmentally friendly personal transport, apart from a bicycle, is an old vehicle with a petrol or diesel engine, restored and properly maintained and driven with a limited mileage

In the western world, we have got into the habit of treating cars as a disposable commodity which can be hauled off to the scrapyard when it has fallen to bits. Vehicles are horrendously difficult to recycle, regardless of the size, type or engine. EVs are no different and they will have a limited lifespan depending on the degradation of the batteries, motor, bodywork and running gear

 

[LenEV2016]

Again mostly anti EV rubbish, EV batteries can be repurposed and used again for other uses
And the whole fossil fuel crap makes me laugh.

Scotland generated a record 38.4 terawatt-hours (TWh) of electricity from renewable sources, marking a 13.2% increase from the previous year. Renewable energy technologies in Scotland generate the equivalent of over 100% of the country's electricity consumption.

Unfortunately due to poor generation in other parts of the UK Scotland is stuck with high costs still when they should be amongst the cheapest in Europe and certainly the UK

 

[Archev]

Again mostly anti EV rubbish, EV batteries can be repurposed and used again for other uses
And the whole fossil fuel crap makes me laugh.

Scotland generated a record 38.4 terawatt-hours (TWh) of electricity from renewable sources, marking a 13.2% increase from the previous year. Renewable energy technologies in Scotland generate the equivalent of over 100% of the country's electricity consumption.

Unfortunately due to poor generation in other parts of the UK Scotland is stuck with high costs still when they should be amongst the cheapest in Europe and certainly the UK

Thrill baby thrill

 

[OriginalBigAl]

Thrill baby thrill

Is that Johnathon Ross doing an impersonation of , oh I refuse to say his name.

 

[Paulie68]

I do agree that in order to secure an NCAP 5-star safety rating car makers have been forced to incorporate these wretched 'driver safety aids' in all new cars on the mistaken basis that they will turn feckless idiots into safe drivers. Touchscreens are way more dangerous than knobs and switches

I am old enough to remember the hype behind diesel cars when we were persuaded to move away from more polluting petrol cars to diesel ones that did more mpg. That went really well

The environmental hype behind EVs is real. Most of them are built in Chinese factories powered by coal-fired power stations and across the planet, most EVs are powered by electricity produced by burning fossil fuels of one sort or another. The embodied energy in a new car, EV or ICE, is massive so the most environmentally friendly personal transport, apart from a bicycle, is an old vehicle with a petrol or diesel engine, restored and properly maintained and driven with a limited mileage

In the western world, we have got into the habit of treating cars as a disposable commodity which can be hauled off to the scrapyard when it has fallen to bits. Vehicles are horrendously difficult to recycle, regardless of the size, type or engine. EVs are no different and they will have a limited lifespan depending on the degradation of the batteries, motor, bodywork and running gear

I don't see any of them still being here after 70+ years, like my VW or your classics, I'll give you that!

I think you've been influenced by the dishonest anti EV narrative on EV build pollution though, I'm recognising what you're parroting, and have heard it before almost word for word... No one is arguing an EV is pollution free, but it's way down on a new ICE alternative.

I don't entirely buy the continuing to use on old car forever argument either (as a daily) the total pollution load for the ongoing fossil fuel burning is way higher than you think when allowing for prospecting, drilling, refining, transporting, then finally burning it in your car, it's absolutely massive.

Even burning fossil fuels to produce electricity to power EVs is an order of magnitude more efficient than burning them directly in individual ICE cars. Then we get to local air pollution where there is no comparison possible, lots vs none at all...

 

[Sparky2]

Fortunately, everyone is entitled to express their own opinion, depending on which spin they are following. As with most things these days, un-biased facts are hard to come by due to the infiltration by those with vested interests into all avenues of opinion. DT's Truth Social is a very good example

 

[LenEV2016]

As you say everyone is entitled to express their own opinions but when they are so easy to prove wrong then all it proves is that people really haven't looked into the real facts.

Members experiences on this forum aren't biased and those disagreeing about your arguements about EVs being no good for longer distances and charging being useless aren't doing so because they have read different information they are disagreeing because their own experiences completely prove your point as wrong.

Similarly your point about fossil fuels is wrong as can also easily be proved.

 

[Archev]

As you say everyone is entitled to express their own opinions but when they are so easy to prove wrong then all it proves is that people really haven't looked into the real facts.

Members experiences on this forum aren't biased and those disagreeing about your arguements about EVs being no good for longer distances and charging being useless aren't doing so because they have read different information they are disagreeing because their own experiences completely prove your point as wrong.

Similarly your point about fossil fuels is wrong as can also easily be proved.

It’s not as if ev drivers just sprouted as such recently. Remember the vast majority of them / us spent many years as ice vehicle owners and drivers. It seems to me there are very few who’d go back to how we were before. We loved (many of) our ice machines and grew accustomed to their sounds and intricacies. I have a 1954 BSA motorcycle I wanted to restore as I’m only the second owner. I’m not sure now if I ever will.
I used to love the sound of racing engines at F1 tracks and on hill climbs and stock car tracks. The near silent urge with the ev torque impresses me so much more now especially on hills.

 

[Bam Bam]

I do too sometimes. I believed the hype and the alleged environmental advantages which now seem rather questionable.

In general, not having a car is by far the more environmentally friendly option. Two wheelers (or public transport) is much better. But if it is EV vs. ICE car there is no comparison.

The environmental benefits of EVs over ICE cars are very substantial, though perhaps you are pointing to the tendency to look only at carbon emissions and ignore other forms of environmental harm, which is something to watch out for.

The simple fact is that batteries are rechargeable many thousands of times over and then recyclable. So the environmental harms are spread over many many uses, whereas fossil fuel harms are replicated every time the engine fires.

 

[m4rmite]

Just in case no one had read it, China coal powered electricity , they also see records each year for solar and wind installations every year.
They also install more solar than the world combined, China solar