Pay per mile. Another blow for EV drivers

[tsedge]

I think Harry Metcalfe that the Sustain petrol he uses cost about £4.50 a litre and that's 20% fossil fuel.

Harry lives in a different world to most of us. His commentary on EVs reflects that - it is entertaining but hardly relevant for most people.

 

[Scotsman]

China build more solar / wind a year than the rest of the world combined. Same with all vehicle types, and that's just for within China.

If we still manufactured our own stuff, we'd still have coal power, we instead exported the pollution to China.

If China didn't make wind / solar stuff for us there would be no green revolution.

Swings & Roundabouts

Yes china do build the most You don't have to rely on china for solar. Vietnam India America Canada all manufacture solar., . But china still has all it's coal fired power stations producing 60% of its power, we only buy from china because it's cheap? And we all see what problems buying cheap is hence all the problems we've got with our cars eh

 

[LenEV2016]

It takes more energy to manufacture synthetic snake oil or H2 than it does to power an EV.

Cars have a shelf life of 10-15 years and we are going slower than that.

I think there is a place for all low emission energy and I think synthetic fuel will end up more mainstream but at a premium, if people are happy to pay the cost to potentially run their high end vehicles then I'm all for it.
The more options the better, choice is a good thing

 

[tsedge]

I dislike it - it is like carbon offsetting: rich people get to do what they like and simply spend money to make it ok (because I planted some trees or bought this special fuel etc...).

Ordinary people can't afford those options, which is unfair.

I'd rather they were more consistent:

• If they believe in the damage carbon is causing they get rid of their private jets, conspicuous consumption, stop all their travelling and work remotely etc...
• If they don't believe in it, then come out and say so.

The one thing that is the worst are hypocrites.

 

[LenEV2016]

I dislike it - it is like carbon offsetting: rich people get to do what they like and simply spend money to make it ok (because I planted some trees or bought this special fuel etc...).

Ordinary people can't afford those options, which is unfair.

I'd rather they were more consistent:

• If they believe in the damage carbon is causing they get rid of their private jets, conspicuous consumption, stop all their travelling and work remotely etc...
• If they don't believe in it, then come out and say so.

The one thing that is the worst are hypocrites.

Some ordinary people couldn't afford an EV a few years ago but that is changing as more and more reasonable range EVs come onto the second hand market at decent prices.

We have to give people choice if we are to wean people of oil.
We can't just tell them it's EVs or nothing

 

[tsedge]

Some ordinary people couldn't afford an EV a few years ago but that is changing as more and more reasonable range EVs come onto the second hand market at decent prices.

We have to give people choice if we are to wean people of oil.
We can't just tell them it's EVs or nothing

We are talking about two different things.

I think you are mixing up @EVsince2016's comments and mine.

I have nothing against choices; we're giving people Hybrids and EVs to choose from, for example. I am not talking about being against expensive EVs or anything like them.

I was talking about the rich (exemplified by multi-millionaires like Harry in my earlier points) and their rich-elite-only behaviours. That's a different thing. Why should they have choices the rest of us don't?

£4.50/litre fuel isn't ever going to be for the mass market. Biofuels have no practical future as they use massive amounts of land and energy to make and will stay super-expensive.

It is like F1 using these absurdly expensive special concoctions and then claiming to be green. It is a nonsense: either they should switch to EVs or just say that's not appropriate for their sport and stick to conventional fuels.

I'm saying a fake "halfway house" for the "haves" just takes the mickey out of the rest of us who have none of these choices.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Did any of you hear about the Emergency National Briefing last week? . . . No, me neither. Dave Borlace gives a good review of it on his channel. It's scary stuff.

 

[GranTurismoEra]

There should be no VED categories lower than £195, there isn't an argument that could be put forward where I would agree that any manky diesel (prior to 2017) should be paying anything less

I went from no road tax to £20 on a smart car. My brother went to £10 on Aygo. Theyre both ICE 1.0 (115g) Emissions. These are solely for parking near the station saving £720 per year on a 10 minute possibly 15 stuck in traffic bus journey and pottering about locally. I had an EV before. An E-Scooter to get to the station for 1 month which i foot pedalled everytime alarm bells rang of police nearby.

They subsequently got banned from TFL after 2 cheap ones caught fire on a moving TFL train. Folding Ebikes are still legal for now on the underground but theres a call to ban them too. But some politicians use those (Bromptons) .

The government only want you using their own E scooters and bikes. TFL and other public transportation bodies have lost some revenue since they came about. I havent taken a bus in over 2 years .

 

[Gomev]

We are talking about two different things.

I think you are mixing up @EVsince2016's comments and mine.

I have nothing against choices; we're giving people Hybrids and EVs to choose from, for example. I am not talking about being against expensive EVs or anything like them.

I was talking about the rich (exemplified by multi-millionaires like Harry in my earlier points) and their rich-elite-only behaviours. That's a different thing. Why should they have choices the rest of us don't?

£4.50/litre fuel isn't ever going to be for the mass market. Biofuels have no practical future as they use massive amounts of land and energy to make and will stay super-expensive.

It is like F1 using these absurdly expensive special concoctions and then claiming to be green. It is a nonsense: either they should switch to EVs or just say that's not appropriate for their sport and stick to conventional fuels.

I'm saying a fake "halfway house" for the "haves" just takes the mickey out of the rest of us who have none of these choices.

But all these things start as expensive and eventually become more economically affordable. You are benefitting from colour TVs, computers and laptops that were once a luxury item for the rich only, and even books before that. At one time the rich became early adopters, possibly like you with an EV, and that leads to more aspiration, maybe because of envy from those that can't afford it at that time, and to the price coming down.
Use of such as the fuel used in F1 has led to research and refining processes (pun sort of intended) that will eventually lead to lower prices and affordability for all possibly.

We should welcome progress and pushing the limits that only the rich can afford because eventually we will be be able to have those things too. This jealousy of what the rich can afford does not help but just creates unnecessary bitterness and unhappiness.

PS I would like to be rich but am not but I still want what those rich bar stewards have....and I will eventually

 

[tsedge]

But all these things start as expensive and eventually become more economically affordable. You are benefitting from colour TVs, computers and laptops that were once a luxury item for the rich only, and even books before that. At one time the rich became early adopters, possibly like you with an EV, and that leads to more aspiration, maybe because of envy from those that can't afford it at that time, and to the price coming down.
Use of such as the fuel used in F1 has led to research and refining processes (pun sort of intended) that will eventually lead to lower prices and affordability for all possibly.

We should welcome progress and pushing the limits that only the rich can afford because eventually we will be be able to have those things too. This jealousy of what the rich can afford does not help but just creates unnecessary bitterness and unhappiness.

PS I would like to be rich but am not but I still want what those rich bar stewards have....and I will eventually

While what you says is true about many pieces of technology, it is not true of biofuels or carbon offsetting: neither are practical technologies at scale. Those are what I am specifically attacking.

 

[tsedge]

I should also say I am not jealous of what those people have, it is their hypocrisy that I hate.

We've created novel ways only available to them for their lives to continue unaffected while they pretend to care about carbon emissions, pretending to be virtuous whilst being some of the biggest culprits.

Meanwhile the rest of us have no choice but to put up with high energy prices and taxes, whether we agree with the cause or not.

I wouldn't mind it nearly so much if they were upfront: if they said they didn't believe carbon emissions were a big problem and were going to carry emitting anyway. Or if they actually lived their lives in a way that matched what they claim to
believe.

 

[Gomev]

While what you says is true about many pieces of technology, it is not true of biofuels or carbon offsetting: neither are practical technologies at scale. Those are what I am specifically attacking.

Well carbon offsetting is just a made up thing, like the tooth fairy, so the price of that is purely off the top of the head make it nonsense.
Who knows what will happen to biofuels in the future. What will happen to petrol production in 20 plus years time when the number of fossil powered vehicles become fewer and fewer until there are only museum and demonstration items left, only to be seen in places like living museums.

 

[Gomev]

I should also say I am not jealous of what those people have, it is their hypocrisy that I hate.

We've created novel ways only available to them for their lives to continue unaffected while they pretend to care about carbon emissions, pretending to be virtuous whilst being some of the biggest culprits.

Meanwhile the rest of us have no choice but to put up with high energy prices and taxes, whether we agree with the cause or not.

I wouldn't mind it nearly so much if they were upfront: if they said they didn't believe carbon emissions were a big problem and were going to carry emitting anyway. Or if they actually lived their lives in a way that matched what they claim to
believe.

I am sorry but in what way are 'they' being hypocritical ? I have no desire to defend the rich and wealthy but I'm not sure many actually pretend to care about carbon emissions and then go out of their way to maximise their carbon production. They either care or they don't.
I care, but I went on a foreign holiday via air this year, does that make me a hypocrite? We each do what we can within our own sphere and our own wealth band. We all have to put up with high energy prices and taxes, just some can afford it more easily.

 

[tsedge]

Petroleum production will continue indefinitely. There are far too many usages for which we have no replacement alternative. The only question is the speed and the scale. At the moment it is increasing as the US pumps more and global population continues to increase and industrialise.

 

[tsedge]

I am sorry but in what way are 'they' being hypocritical ? I have no desire to defend the rich and wealthy but I'm not sure many actually pretend to care about carbon emissions and then go out of their way to maximise their carbon production. They either care or they don't.

We see this differently then. I see a lot of virtue signalling going on with utterly contradictory behaviour: like bulldozing the rainforest to make a new road for a conference everyone is flying into with a private jet in the name of reducing emissions.

I care, but I went on a foreign holiday via air this year, does that make me a hypocrite? We each do what we can within our own sphere and our own wealth band. We all have to put up with high energy prices and taxes, just some can afford it more easily.

It only makes you somewhat a hypocrite if you are actively campaigning for other people to reduce their carbon emissions. I don't know if that's something you do. I am not doing that.

I didn't get an EV to save the planet, I got one because it is a superior technology and it offer reduced running costs. That's it.

Anyway, it seems like we aren't going agree on this and it is probably boring for many (and way off the topic), so I'll stop here.