Range estimation at -30 celsius?

[hharzel]

At worst the temperature can drop below -30 celsius here in Finland during winter. Is there any data on what kind of range (or problems) is to be expected at that low temp? It seems most cars here in Europe are sold in England where it never gets that cold.

 

[siteguru]

Which battery type? LR (NMC) or SR (LFP)?

 

[Kithmo]

I read on google that Lithium ion battery capacity is reduced by 50% at -22C.

 

[siteguru]

That's why I asked my previous question.

 

[Rolfe]

LFP and NMC are both "lithium ion" batteries though.

 

[hharzel]

It's a SR. And yes, I happened to read the thread on Tesla forum where some guy shared his experience in extreme cold temperature, such as car not charging at all and "forget about it" at -30C. (found the link on this forum). Let's see how it goes when it gets very cold, as it always does.

 

[shinyrobot]

Yeah, I'm not going outside, if it's that cold.

 

[Rolfe]

They're selling the car in Finland, and the climate in Finland is a matter of record. If the car is useless at these temperatures, surely there is some "fitness for purpose" comeback?

 

[hharzel]

I don't think it'll be useless. The climate's supposed to get warmer every year here in the northern hemisphere after all...

The positive thing is the SR comes with heated seats and steering wheel in my country. Still no heat pump tho, although at -30C it'd be pretty much worthless.

 

[Rolfe]

I am noticing a drop in range in my SR as the temperatures approach freezing. But electricity is so much cheaper than petrol, I don't care.

 

[shinyrobot]

They're selling the car in Finland, and the climate in Finland is a matter of record. If the car is useless at these temperatures, surely there is some "fitness for purpose" comeback?

Yeah, I think I'd just say inside in my underpants all winter, getting drunk.
#kalsarikännit

 

[M101]

At -30 you will get about 50 miles.
My SE only gets about 100 miles in UK winter which is usually 0 to -8 degrees

 

[siteguru]

My worst last winter was 120 miles.

 

[profdraper]

I assume the 'short range' MG4 model mentioned is the 51kWh LFP version, perhaps worth checking EV Database (although these temps seem fairly extreme):

MG MG4 Electric 51 kWh

All details and specs of the MG MG4 Electric 51 kWh (2022). Compare price, lease, real-world range and consumption of every electric vehicle.

ev-database.org

 

[Rolfe]

My worst last winter was 120 miles.

I'm busy volunteering to be the driver for a Boxing Day visit to a friend's brother, who lives about 100 miles from my friend's house. I've identified an excellent electric forecourt at a Shell garage barely six miles from the brother's house. I intend to drop friends off, go there and get my SoC as high as possible, then go back and hopefully finish off on the granny charger so that we leave with 100% charge again. This could get interesting. If it works it will be excellent. If not, I end up looking slightly foolish if we have to break our journey (either way) to take on extra charge.

It would be a piece of cake in summer, but I may have to trim my speed in December.

Of course, if the world was ordered as it should be, friend's brother would drive an EV and have a wall box and I'd be able to get charged on that while we stuff our faces with roast beef and Yorkshire pud.

I assume the 'short range' MG4 model mentioned is the 51kWh LFP version, perhaps worth checking EV Database (although these temps seem fairly extreme):

MG MG4 Electric 51 kWh

All details and specs of the MG MG4 Electric 51 kWh (2022). Compare price, lease, real-world range and consumption of every electric vehicle.

ev-database.org

That seems quite reassuring for me. It suggests that doing 70 on the motorway with heating on at -10C should still deliver 130 miles. It's not going to be -10C in the English Midlands in December, I hope.

ABRP suggested I would get there with 25% charge remaining, but in December (I did tell it the date) that seems a bit optimistic.

 

[M101]

My worst last winter was 120 miles.

Do you drive anywhere above 50mph and do you drive up hills? Because my average in summer was around 160 miles and in winter its 100 miles, but i drive at the speed limit on 60 and 70 mph roads with several miles on hilly country roads on my commute to work.

 

[Fogey]

Don't forget that, regardless of battery considerations, the increase in air density with colder temperatures will cause an increase in drag - expect at least 15% more drag at motorway speeds if it's -30C (compared with an air temperature of 15C).

Since drag losses dominate at motorway speeds, that 15% + will translate into roughly 15% reduction in range.

 

[M101]

I'm busy volunteering to be the driver for a Boxing Day visit to a friend's brother, who lives about 100 miles from my friend's house. I've identified an excellent electric forecourt at a Shell garage barely six miles from the brother's house. I intend to drop friends off, go there and get my SoC as high as possible, then go back and hopefully finish off on the granny charger so that we leave with 100% charge again. This could get interesting. If it works it will be excellent. If not, I end up looking slightly foolish if we have to break our journey (either way) to take on extra charge.

It would be a piece of cake in summer, but I may have to trim my speed in December.

Of course, if the world was ordered as it should be, friend's brother would drive an EV and have a wall box and I'd be able to get charged on that while we stuff our faces with roast beef and Yorkshire pud.

on a long run you will get more range, My commute is 10 miles and its fast/slow, up and down stop/start which is just about the worst condition. At a constant motorway speed you will be fine

 

[Kithmo]

My worst last winter was 120 miles.

TBH, I'm not expecting much more than that from my Trophy with the bigger battery if the gom is anything to go by. My daily short journey of 3 miles each way only gets me 2 m/kWh if I put the heater on. It might even be less as ISTR someone saying 2 is the minimum reading on the gom.
2 x 63 = 126.

 

[siteguru]

The usable capacity of the LR battery is 61.7 kWh ........

Do you drive anywhere above 50mph and do you drive up hills? Because my average in summer was around 160 miles and in winter its 100 miles, but i drive at the speed limit on 60 and 70 mph roads with several miles on hilly country roads on my commute to work.

That was when I was still working, so I was doing 15 miles to work (mostly town driving), and 18 miles home (half town, half motorway), with some hills both ways. When temperature was down around -5C with that sort of driving was when I got 120 miles ... that was taking the SoC down to 6%, so actual "range" would have been nearer 130 miles.