Someone is on a 'normal' standard tariff, why would they buy an MG4 in this example?

[4ND]

When you think of it, if one hasn't a 'friendly' electricity kwh rate, and say have just got the standard default tariff (i.e like MILLIONS of the public has), it isn't really worth them buying a transportation pod.
For eg, a default British Gas standard tariff is, I think, now 54p per Kwh. So say this person has a Trophy with the 64Kwh pack. Then it costs 64 X 0.54 = £34.56 to charge from zero to 100%, for say a real world 250 mile range?
Now, my Mrs' 1.5 MINI Cooper gives a great 52 mpg regularly (by my own calculations, not the on board computer). So 52mpg = 11.43 miles per litre, so that's 22L per 250 miles (the probable real world range of a 100% charged, Trophy MG4). At say £1.62 per litre, 250 miles costs her about 22 X £1.62 = £35.64..... Almost exactly the same cost!! And of course it takes her about 60 seconds to fill (charge) her MINI for that range, as opposed to 7 or so hours.
So why would someone not only buy the 4, but also go to the expense and hassle of paying a solid £1000 on top of the car costs for a home charger, with the work done by the installation people, for negligible running cost gains, if they are like millions of people and on a standard default rate electric plan?
Granted you get free tax (for now), but faced with those calculations, why would someone opt for a transportation pod?

 

[siteguru]

54p per kWh? Seriously? Cap rate is 34p (for me at least)

52 mpg (which is very good - for a car smaller than an MG4) @ £1.62 per litre = 14.4p per mile

3.2 miles per kWh (which is a very low estimate) is 10.6p per mile.

I agree things are getting closer ... but it's stretching things to compare a smaller, really efficient ICE car vs a bigger EV car. And fossil fuel prices are starting to creep back up again too.

 

[4ND]

54p per kWh? Seriously? Cap rate is 34p (for me at least)

52 mpg (which is very good - for a car smaller than an MG4) @ £1.62 per litre = 14.4p per mile

3.2 miles per kWh (which is a very low estimate) is 10.6p per mile.

Yes, me being thick, electricity is 34p cap per unit of course It was due to be about 52p
So that would make 64 x £0.34 = £22 approx.

Still though, that is via a capped unit rate, what that will be next April when the cap may well lift is anyone's guess.

 

[siteguru]

Can't argue with that. By the same token - what will petrol/diesel prices be like?

BTW my calculations are based on the SR version with 50kWh usable. 3.2 miles per kWh = 160 miles range, which is a low estimate. 50 kWh x 34p = £17, hence 1700p / 160 = 10.625p per mile

 

[Kamil]

More of a question would be how many EV drivers don't have solar panels?

This is where you truly gain benefits over ICE. You can't produce diesel or petrol on your roof

 

[4ND]

Can't argue with that. By the same token - what will petrol/diesel prices be like?

That is true. But they are still a solid 15% less than they were 3 months ago, whereas energy prices via gas/electric have only gone north.
My point is more a case of person X is like millions of the public and on a normal standard tarrif and don't mind their involving manual tranmission petrol car with its nice engine sound. They do a calculation on the financial benefits of 'converting' to an EV ala the Trophy, plus another solid grand to add a home charger and I'm wondering if they throw the calculator away and say don't bother.

 

[4ND]

More of a question would be how many EV drivers don't have solar panels?

The guy across the road from me.

 

[Jomarkh]

You can still get night tariffs and you will get the cost of an EVSE back if you do a lot of miles.
I have done 24k mostly plugging in over night for 18 months. My Zappi EVSE has done most of that with ease.

 

[Bodgerx]

When you think of it, if one hasn't a 'friendly' electricity kwh rate, and say have just got the standard default tariff (i.e like MILLIONS of the public has), it isn't really worth them buying a transportation pod.
For eg, a default British Gas standard tariff is, I think, now 54p per Kwh. So say this person has a Trophy with the 64Kwh pack. Then it costs 64 X 0.54 = £34.56 to charge from zero to 100%, for say a real world 250 mile range?
Now, my Mrs' 1.5 MINI Cooper gives a great 52 mpg regularly (by my own calculations, not the on board computer). So 52mpg = 11.43 miles per litre, so that's 22L per 250 miles (the probable real world range of a 100% charged, Trophy MG4). At say £1.62 per litre, 250 miles costs her about 22 X £1.62 = £35.64..... Almost exactly the same cost!! And of course it takes her about 60 seconds to fill (charge) her MINI for that range, as opposed to 7 or so hours.
So why would someone not only buy the 4, but also go to the expense and hassle of paying a solid £1000 on top of the car costs for a home charger, with the work done by the installation people, for negligible running cost gains, if they are like millions of people and on a standard default rate electric plan?
Granted you get free tax (for now), but faced with those calculations, why would someone opt for a transportation pod?

I seriously question 52mpg real world in a 1.5 Mini petrol.

That thing is a one of these modern turbos tuned and optimised to perform well in a test. Real world is more like 40-42mpg.

Changes your figures somewhat, especially when you factor in tax plus additional cost to maintain an ICE vs an EV.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/mini/hatch-2014/one-15-2018

 

[Pat]

The 'standard' 'bad' tariff is roughly 37p per kWh (+/- depending where you live) so your figures are way off.

Moving to a 'Time of Use' tariff takes not a lot more effort than a phone call (I got myself onto Octopus Go on the 6th of October 2022)

The process went like this:-
Rang Octopus
I would like to switch to Octopus Go - a car should be arriving soon (who the hell knows though when with MG!).
Are you sure? it's expensive during the day (47p I seem to remember)
Yep I have solar panels - not bothered about day rate.
Okay - we'll move you to Standard Octopus and when you are on that you can move yourself online.
(Roughly) 2-3 weeks later I'm on Octopus. Logged into Octopus account, switched to Octopus Go - change was done automatically there and then.

Now I get 4 hours at 7.5p kWh (00:30-04:30) - no car yet, but my 10kWh Home Storage loves it;-)

Pat

 

[OJEastwood]

I suppose some might argue that the EV driving experience is more enjoyable, with it being quieter and a smoother drive? And also the fact you could wake up with a full 'tank' without really being inconvenienced whatsoever.
Our second car is still a petrol and it is a little depressing sat waiting in queues for a single use fluid that when used pollutes our air, which I guess could be another very valid reason for people choosing EV over an ICE

 

[4ND]

The 'standard' 'bad' tariff is roughly 37p per kWh (+/- depending where you live) so your figures are way off.

Moving to a 'Time of Use' tariff takes not a lot more effort than a phone call (I got myself onto Octopus Go on the 6th of October 2022)

The process went like this:-
Rang Octopus
I would like to switch to Octopus Go - a car should be arriving soon (who the hell knows though when with MG!).
Are you sure? it's expensive during the day (47p I seem to remember)
Yep I have solar panels - not bothered about day rate.
Okay - we'll move you to Standard Octopus and when you are on that you can move yourself online.
(Roughly) 2-3 weeks later I'm on Octopus. Logged into Octopus account, switched to Octopus Go - change was done automatically there and then.

Now I get 4 hours at 7.5p kWh (00:30-04:30) - no car yet, my 10kWh Home Storage loves it;-)

Pat

I revised the standard tariff in an above post.

The rest of your post isn't what my post is really aimed at. Yes, solar panels and Octopuses and smart meters, but I'm just doing a calculation for average Joe, ala millions of the public who are not particular clued up on solar panels and the £thousands to install, and octopuses, and just are considering getting a £1,000 charger and plugging their car in on their default tariff.
The calculations IN THAT CASE aren't as persuasive for an ICE owner to jump to a transportation pod.

If you like, you could also try to 'persuade' the would-be EV owner its also advantageous to get on the phone to a solar panel firm and have £5-10K ready, at the same time as you get your £1K charger, and although millions don't swap tariffs, you'll have to do that to to get your Octopus.
Good luck with that lot

 

[Bodgerx]

I revised the standard tariff in an above post.

The rest of your post isn't what my post is really aimed at. Yes, solar panels and Octopuses and smart meters, but I'm just doing a calculation for average Joe, ala millions of the public who are not particular clued up on solar panels and the £thousands to install, and octopuses, and just are considering getting a £1,000 charger and plugging their car in on their default tariff.
The calculations IN THAT CASE aren't as persuasive for an ICE owner to jump to a transportation pod.

If you like, you could also try to 'persuade' the would-be EV owner its also advantageous to get on the phone to a solar panel firm and have £5-10K ready, at the same time as you get your £1K charger, and although millions don't swap tariffs, you'll have to do that to to get your Octopus.
Good luck with that lot

I don't think buying a brand new car of any type is a particular good financial move (nor an enviornmental one).

Having said that, if you are in the market for a new car, everyone should be seriously considering an EV. New car for new car, the figures stack up. But if you have an old ICE that isn't too polluting and has good efficiency, the numbers are not strong. But they are even worse buying another new ICE car.

 

[4ND]

I suppose some might argue that the EV driving experience is more enjoyable, with it being quieter and a smoother drive? And also the fact you could wake up with a full 'tank' without really being inconvenienced whatsoever.
Our second car is still a petrol and it is a little depressing sat waiting in queues for a single use fluid that when used pollutes our air, which I guess could be another very valid reason for people choosing EV over an ICE

Those are different issues. Arguable both ways. The other person might like an engine sound and a manual trans, just as the EV owner likes tyre noise.
Just as the EV is timed to 'wake' up with a full tank, it's more than easy enough to likewise get petrol at a quieter time with scant people at the petrol station. I seriously can't recall when I last queued at a petrol station.
Comparing charging an EV at night to a busy time at the petrol station is akin to comparing a quiet time at a petrol station to a 3 mile left range anxiety EV day fumbling to find a Tesco charger at 1pm on a Friday afternoon.

 

[Bodgerx]

Those are different issues. Arguable both ways. The other person might like an engine sound and a manual trans, just as the EV owner likes tyre noise.
Just as the EV it timed to 'wake' up with a full tank, it's more than easy enough to likewise get petrol at a quieter time with scant people at the petrol station. I seriously can't recall when I last queued at a petrol station.
Comparing charging an EV at night to a busy time at the petrol station is akin to comparing a quiet time at a petrol station to a 3 mile left range anxiety EV day fumbling to find a Tesco charger at 1pm on a Friday afternoon.

It sounds like you haven't owned an EV.

 

[Thorpey]

Personally I would never drive a diesel again, I even refuse to take a courtesy car if it has an ICE. I prefer the driving experience and have solar so take pride in knowing my miles are almost zero c02 and no particulate emissions. Everyone has to do their bit and your not going to have choice for much longer so you might as well take the tax advantage now whilst it still exists.

 

[4ND]

It sounds like you haven't owned an EV.

No, I haven't.
I've test drove three thus far, but haven't owned one.

 

[Pat]

I revised the standard tariff in an above post.

The rest of your post isn't what my post is really aimed at. Yes, solar panels and Octopuses and smart meters, but I'm just doing a calculation for average Joe, ala millions of the public who are not particular clued up on solar panels and the £thousands to install, and octopuses, and just are considering getting a £1,000 charger and plugging their car in on their default tariff.
The calculations IN THAT CASE aren't as persuasive for an ICE owner to jump to a transportation pod.

If you like, you could also try to 'persuade' the would-be EV owner its also advantageous to get on the phone to a solar panel firm and have £5-10K ready, at the same time as you get your £1K charger, and although millions don't swap tariffs, you'll have to do that to to get your Octopus.
Good luck with that lot

Ah missed your update, fair play.

I agree to an extent with what you are saying - 6+months ago it was a no-brainer, now it's a lot closer.

However would it not be also reasonable to expect the average Joe to do at least some research before plowing hundreds of pounds a month (or buying outright) into an EV?

At least googling 'cheapest way charge EV UK'? Octopus Go is the third cheapest way behind (1) Free Supermarkets and (2) Solar panels and is (literally) the first return result from google.

I suspect that if people are going to be buying into an EV they would perhaps do that first?

Pat

 

[Nicko]

I jumped from an ICE to EV and I am on normal tariff 33p. I am still saving and I do low mileage. I also have the benefit of being an electrical engineer and installed my own podpoint. I drove my wife's Tuscon the other day and compared to the MG the drive was not as quiet or comfortable as the MG and I don't have to queue up at the petrol station. win win

 

[4ND]

Personally I would never drive a diesel again, I even refuse to take a courtesy car if it has an ICE. I prefer the driving experience and have solar so take pride in knowing my miles are almost zero c02 and no particulate emissions. Everyone has to do their bit and your not going to have choice for much longer so you might as well take the tax advantage now whilst it still exists.

Don't want the thread to go down BBC like propaganda trash.
That's the issue with arguments for and against EVs, the greenwashing cards come out.
Often by people who happily used ICE cars all of their lives for short trips rather than walking or catching a bus, and had/still have their yearly foreign holidays on their planes.