Upgrade ZS EV onboard AC to DC charger

[Dave53]

I wonder if MG could offer an upgrade to the ZS EV's onboard AC to DC charger to accept a higher power input, its frustrating that there are now 20+ kW AC power stations all over the country and we are limited to 7Kw I would be happier with the battery size if this was to happen as it opens up a lot more opportunity for faster charging as this seems to be the new norm.

 

[JodyS21]

Unless things have changed recently, I thought all EVs had onboard max 7kWh DC inverters, with the exception of one manufacturer that had 11/12 or something.

I presume the cost and size/weight would go up a lot if they had bigger ones on-board, that's the main reason why.

Hardly anyone has 3 phase AC power/chargers at home, so no more than 7kWh would pretty much ever be used for home charging. The vast majority of EV car charging is done at home so I guess it would practically never be used.

So it would only ever really be advantageous when out and about on a long journey and a rapid charge is needed.
I guess whenever you want a rapid charge, you want it "rapid" so people generally wouldn't be happy just getting a rate of 20kWh.

The only real benefit from it I can see, is that it could be a cheap way of places offering a faster charge without the expense of installing DC charging equipment. Anything is better than nothing if you're short and there's no where nearer with a rapid charger.

I can't see car manufacturers doing it for the very rare time that it would be realistically needed/used.

 

[Coulomb]

Some early Teslas came with 22kW on board chargers, and it may be an option for later models. Later model 3s I think come with 11kW chargers (3 phase 16A). Early Renault Zoes had 22kW AC charging, and no DC charging! They used the motor controller somehow to save cost and space. Few other vehicles use this technique. In Europe, I believe it's fairly common to have 3 phase in the home.

I suspect that AC chargers are standardising on 22kW not so much because many cars use this level but because 3 phase is needed for 11kW cars (else they get only 3.6kW), and 32A is needed for single phase cars like ours, else we get only 3.6kW as well. It's unfortunate that at present few vehicles use both 3 phase AND 32A (and hence charge at 22kW).

I agree that it's likely space, weight, and especially cost that prevents most vehicles from coming standard with 22kW on-board chargers. There doesn't seem to be a compelling need to carry around a larger OBC. 7 kW is usually adequate for home charging, and DC charging is more convenient when on a road trip.

 

[Dave53]

Unless things have changed recently, I thought all EVs had onboard max 7kWh DC inverters, except one manufacturer that had 11/12 or something.

I presume the cost and size/weight would go up a lot if they had bigger ones on board, that's the main reason why.

Hardly anyone has 3 phase AC power/chargers at home, so no more than 7kWh would pretty much ever be used for home charging. The vast majority of EV car charging is done at home so I guess it would practically never be used.

So it would only ever really be advantageous when out and about on a long journey and a rapid charge is needed.
I guess whenever you want a rapid charge, you want it "rapid" so people generally wouldn't be happy just getting a rate of 20kWh.

The only real benefit from it I can see is that it could be a cheap way of places offering a faster charge without the expense of installing DC charging equipment. Anything is better than nothing if you're short and there's nowhere nearer with a rapid charger.

I can't see car manufacturers doing it for the very rare time that it would be realistically needed/used.

The problem is that in most areas there are only 1 or 2 rapid chargers at a reasonable cost and nine out of 10 times they are taken the 22kw and higher type 2 outlets are becoming much more popular and would cut down waiting times, it's fine if you have a large battery but the MG ZS is just a bit too small for the long journey, adding a larger-capacity charger would solve that problem, with the amount of room under the hood I'm sure it would be able to fit, no idea of cost but I would think it would be cheaper than a replacement larger battery.

 

[JodyS21]

The problem is that in most areas there are only 1 or 2 rapid chargers at a reasonable cost and nine out of 10 times they are taken the 22kw and higher type 2 outlets are becoming much more popular and would cut down waiting times, it's fine if you have a large battery but the MG ZS is just a bit too small for the long journey, adding a larger-capacity charger would solve that problem, with the amount of room under the hood I'm sure it would be able to fit, no idea of cost but I would think it would be cheaper than a replacement larger battery.

I understand what you mean. We ideally need more rapid dc chargers obviously.

Personally a 22kWh wouldn’t help me. If I was doing a long journey and needed to stop to fill up say from 20% to 80%, that would take (42*0.6/22*0.10) over 75mins, that’s too inconvenient a time to be stopped for. I’d want a 45+kWh DC so it was done in about 30mins.

 

[Deleted member 2439]

The 22kW chargers are 3 phase. 3 x 7 = 21. So to upgrade the cars charger would mean a chargers that’s three times as expensive and thus complex.

 

[Brianlescargot]

7kw is max AC on almost all electric vehicles, with the Renault Zoe being the obvious exception. If you want a faster charge then it’s going to have to be DC

 

[Angusgolfer]

Some Renault Zoes in the past could charge at 43kw which is why there are some 43kw AC public chargers about.

 

[KG003143]

Car manufacturers and authorities promoting EV adoption seem to be missing a significant proportion of customers - those without off-street parking. If you do then a 7kW charger is fine but if not then you need something faster. 22kW AC units seem to be getting installed more often but for most users, they are limited to 7kW by onboard inverter. Living without a home charger means that capacity is needed to allow more reasonable charge times. I have a 22kW unit 2 mins walk from my flat but a rapid DC unit is a 10 minute drive away. The 22 has a 3 hour limit so what can I do with 21kW? Useless! At full speed, it could give me 66kW in that time - enough to fill the new long range MG ZS!
It's past time for manufacturers to offer 22kW as an option. The latest Audi e-tron apparently does. As for MG, I gather that EU models will have 11kW OBC but UK won't, maybe because of RHD costs. Best not rush to the Dublin dealer cos likely they need to suffer 7kW OBC cos they're RHD too despite being in the EU!

 

[JodyS21]

Car manufacturers and authorities promoting EV adoption seem to be missing a significant proportion of customers - those without off-street parking. If you do then a 7kW charger is fine but if not then you need something faster. 22kW AC units seem to be getting installed more often but for most users, they are limited to 7kW by onboard inverter. Living without a home charger means that capacity is needed to allow more reasonable charge times. I have a 22kW unit 2 mins walk from my flat but a rapid DC unit is a 10 minute drive away. The 22 has a 3 hour limit so what can I do with 21kW? Useless! At full speed, it could give me 66kW in that time - enough to fill the new long range MG ZS!
It's past time for manufacturers to offer 22kW as an option. The latest Audi e-tron apparently does. As for MG, I gather that EU models will have 11kW OBC but UK won't, maybe because of RHD costs. Best not rush to the Dublin dealer cos likely they need to suffer 7kW OBC cos they're RHD too despite being in the EU!

Interesting.
I’m guilty of forgetting there will be folks without a driveway for charging. It is/will be much more difficult for them.
I wouldn’t buy an EV currently if I didn’t have home charging, not until the infrastructure gets better.
I’m not sure if/when cars will come as standard with 22kW onboard chargers, the cost (& probably extra weight) makes it generally unviable.
There’s obviously enough of a cost difference to warrant dropping the 3phase 11kW from the UK model given it must make manufacturing slightly more complicated not having a single shared part.

 

[BigBear]

I'm guessing as time goes by, onboard AC charger upgrades will probably be something the aftermarket, or even the manufacturers(?) will end up offering as a way to "tune" your EV.

 

[Coulomb]

There’s obviously enough of a cost difference to warrant dropping the 3phase 11kW from the UK model given it must make manufacturing slightly more complicated not having a single shared part.

I wonder if that might change if they learn the "Tesla trick" of allowing an 11kW 3-phase on-board charger to take 7kW from single phase. Having a charger that only takes 3.6kW from single phase obviously justified losing the shared part advantage. But the tricky charger that can do 7kW single phase or 11kW 3-phase is pretty handy, and with the shared part advantage, it might catch on.

I see that the BMW i3 (and probably other models) also has the 7/11 on-board charger.

 

[AJM87]

I would pay to upgrade my ZS ac onboard to a 22kW the amount of ac 22kW we have here it would make road trips easier the ability to charge 3 times faster (possibly a little more) than currently able to on a & only on average 2-1.5 times longer than most available DC that are paired with the AC units. This would be fantastic only an hour to put in 50% this would free up more DC units. For me after 2-2.5hrs driving especially off with friends/family I could take an hour at lunch not even factoring in time to get in order and bathroom time.